View Poll Results: Why is the middle class the most crippled by income tax? Select all that apply

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  • Allowing many people to have a shot at being uber-wealthy is dangerous

    1 1.19%
  • Making the uber-wealthy share the load would be bad for the economy

    0 0%
  • The middle class do not have as much of an influence on politics as the wealthy do

    30 35.71%
  • The idea that the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax is a myth

    54 64.29%
  • A few wealthy, a few more middle class and many lower class citizens is best

    3 3.57%
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Thread: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

  1. #171
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The problem is that you cannot objectively prove your claim that the wealthy benefit less from the government than the working class.
    what we can prove is the top one percent pays 40% of the federal income taxes and almost all the death taxes and the bottom 40% pays NONE of the FIT

    we can also argue without contradiction that the bottom 40% use more federal services than the top one percent yet pay none of the federal income taxes.



  2. #172
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what we can prove is the top one percent pays 40% of the federal income taxes and almost all the death taxes and the bottom 40% pays NONE of the FIT

    we can also argue without contradiction that the bottom 40% use more federal services than the top one percent yet pay none of the federal income taxes.
    As Foghorn Leghorn would say, "I see your lips a flappin', but you ain't sayin' nothin'"

    Let's see your documentation of your claim that the rich get less benefit from the government than the working class. Your opinion means less than nothing to me.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #173
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As Foghorn Leghorn would say, "I see your lips a flappin', but you ain't sayin' nothin'"

    Let's see your documentation of your claim that the rich get less benefit from the government than the working class. Your opinion means less than nothing to me.
    so it is your learned argument that the top one percent

    1) use more government services than the 47% who pay no income taxes

    2) than the 90% of so who pay less of the Income taxes than the top one percent?

    that is the issue

    taxes paid versus services used

    for your silly rants about the rich to have merit, you have to prove that all of those combined-who pay as much of the income tax as the rich use less services.

    the top 5% pay 58% of the federal income taxes. that means the bottom 95% pay 42% of the income taxes. The top one percent pays 39% of the income taxes

    that means the top one percent pays as much income tax as the bottom 92 or 93% of the population.

    now that both groups pay the same federal income taxes for the rich to use more you would have to show that 1% uses more government services than 92%

    I suggest common sense suggests that would be an idiotic assertion



  4. #174
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Second, there is no persuasive support in the literature for the claim that higher-income people derive a disproportionately greater value from government protection of property than lower-income people. Some progression advocates have argued that government exists in large part to protect rich people from poor people, while poor people need no such protection. Thus, the value of the rich person’s protection is disproportionately greater than that afforded the poor. Perhaps this was true centuries ago in some feudal nations, but it is not now and never has been generally true in the United States. Others argue that insurance is priced according to risk as well as value, implying that high-value property is at greater risk of loss. While this notion has conceptual merit, it does not follow that property owned by high-income people is at greater risk than property owned by low-income people. In fact, the rich are more likely to engage in self-protection (e.g., build protective walls, install security systems, hire guards, etc.), which would result in reduced, not greater, risk. Seligman, Blum and Kalven, and others have examined the property protection arguments for progression and dismissed them as either untenably weak or without merit.

    The Inequity of the Progressive Income Tax | Hoover Institution



  5. #175
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so it is your learned argument that the top one percent

    1) use more government services than the 47% who pay no income taxes

    2) than the 90% of so who pay less of the Income taxes than the top one percent?

    that is the issue

    taxes paid versus services used

    for your silly rants about the rich to have merit, you have to prove that all of those combined-who pay as much of the income tax as the rich use less services.

    the top 5% pay 58% of the federal income taxes. that means the bottom 95% pay 42% of the income taxes. The top one percent pays 39% of the income taxes

    that means the top one percent pays as much income tax as the bottom 92 or 93% of the population.

    now that both groups pay the same federal income taxes for the rich to use more you would have to show that 1% uses more government services than 92%

    I suggest common sense suggests that would be an idiotic assertion
    NO. It his his assertion that

    "I see your lips a flappin', but you ain't sayin' nothin'"
    that was really easy to understand. I have no idea where you got the rest of your post.
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  6. #176
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    NO. It his his assertion that



    that was really easy to understand. I have no idea where you got the rest of your post.
    maybe it would be better if you would let catawba speak for himself. my point was made to him not the tribe



  7. #177
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so it is your learned argument that the top one percent

    1) use more government services than the 47% who pay no income taxes

    2) than the 90% of so who pay less of the Income taxes than the top one percent?

    that is the issue

    taxes paid versus services used

    for your silly rants about the rich to have merit, you have to prove that all of those combined-who pay as much of the income tax as the rich use less services.

    the top 5% pay 58% of the federal income taxes. that means the bottom 95% pay 42% of the income taxes. The top one percent pays 39% of the income taxes

    that means the top one percent pays as much income tax as the bottom 92 or 93% of the population.

    now that both groups pay the same federal income taxes for the rich to use more you would have to show that 1% uses more government services than 92%

    I suggest common sense suggests that would be an idiotic assertion

    Numbering your random opinions may fly in Turtledude court, but on a debate forum they are still just your opinions, which mean nothing.

    Just the documented facts Ma'am to prove your claim that the rich benefit less from government than the working class.
    Last edited by Catawba; 08-24-11 at 11:03 PM.
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  8. #178
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Numbering your opinions may fly in Turtledude court, but on a debate forum they are still just your opinions, which mean nothing.
    I love how you ignore facts. its not my opinion that the top 1% pay more of the income taxes than the bottom 90% that is just a pure fact: facts that pretty much put the old womp stomp and giftwrap on the emotobabbling posts you spew



  9. #179
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Second, there is no persuasive support in the literature for the claim that higher-income people derive a disproportionately greater value from government protection of property than lower-income people. Some progression advocates have argued that government exists in large part to protect rich people from poor people, while poor people need no such protection. Thus, the value of the rich person’s protection is disproportionately greater than that afforded the poor. Perhaps this was true centuries ago in some feudal nations, but it is not now and never has been generally true in the United States. Others argue that insurance is priced according to risk as well as value, implying that high-value property is at greater risk of loss. While this notion has conceptual merit, it does not follow that property owned by high-income people is at greater risk than property owned by low-income people. In fact, the rich are more likely to engage in self-protection (e.g., build protective walls, install security systems, hire guards, etc.), which would result in reduced, not greater, risk. Seligman, Blum and Kalven, and others have examined the property protection arguments for progression and dismissed them as either untenably weak or without merit.

    The Inequity of the Progressive Income Tax | Hoover Institution

    A conservative blog is not objective documentation. So, in other words, you couldn't find any credible source to back up your wild claim.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #180
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I love how you ignore facts. its not my opinion that the top 1% pay more of the income taxes than the bottom 90% that is just a pure fact: facts that pretty much put the old womp stomp and giftwrap on the emotobabbling posts you spew
    Your opinion on how much taxes the top 1% pay has nothing whatsoever to do with your claim that the rich benefit less from the government than the working class.

    Please try to focus, and provide some credible documentation to back up your absurd claim, if you can.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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