View Poll Results: Why is the middle class the most crippled by income tax? Select all that apply

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  • Allowing many people to have a shot at being uber-wealthy is dangerous

    1 1.19%
  • Making the uber-wealthy share the load would be bad for the economy

    0 0%
  • The middle class do not have as much of an influence on politics as the wealthy do

    30 35.71%
  • The idea that the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax is a myth

    54 64.29%
  • A few wealthy, a few more middle class and many lower class citizens is best

    3 3.57%
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Thread: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

  1. #111
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I call BS on that

    your claim that most of those in that 47% cannot afford to pay ANY income tax is a bald faced lie
    They own something like 2.5% of the countries income combined (or less) how could that not be conceivable to you? Perhaps the government has coddled you for too long or you have never had the opportunity to work with a budget that didn't afford you all your needs and many wants to boot? I've been there, I know what it can be like.

  2. #112
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yeah treating everyone the same is unfair even if it means the rich still pay far more for the same government services?
    Unfortunately you have never proposed treating everyone the same

  3. #113
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    They own something like 2.5% of the countries income combined (or less) how could that not be conceivable to you? Perhaps the government has coddled you for too long or you have never had the opportunity to work with a budget that didn't afford you all your needs and many wants to boot? I've been there, I know what it can be like.
    you are being dishonest now.

    the bottom 50% make about 12.5% of the income

    they sure use far more than 12,5% of the government services.

    uh how has the government coddled me? I pay far more than I use.

    and where does the nonsense that if you cannot afford something you should be able to get it without paying for it come from?



  4. #114
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Unfortunately you have never proposed treating everyone the same
    sure I have. everyone should pay for what they use. everyone has the same basic citizenship rights



  5. #115
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Turtle - you keep gloating that a certain poster has not made a sound argument in favor of progressive income taxes. If you need any solid reasons for it please read this article

    Progressive tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Here are but a few within the limits of the rules

    The higher one's income, the greater the fraction of it that tends to consist of economic rent rather than rewards for any commensurate contribution to production. By definition, economic rent is a factor payment exceeding that required to place a factor in its most productive use, so it can be taxed away entirely without impairing wealth production. Consequently, in the absence of taxes specifically levied on economic rent, a steeply progressive tax on the highest incomes can be expected to fall almost exclusively on economic rent, minimizing the excess burden of such taxation.
    In a market economy, the larger an investment is, the higher its rate of return. This is due to both economies of scale and the increased range of investment opportunities. In addition to these economic forces, those who control greater amounts of capital within a society are able to participate more directly in shaping government policy, often in ways that further maximize their wealth. Thus, due to both economic and political realities within a market economy, it is a natural process for the wealthiest individuals and firms in a society to become disproportionately wealthier over time. In order to prevent the political instability resulting from the natural stratification of the populace into an ever smaller and wealthier aristocracy or moneyed class, and an ever larger working class, all free market democracies engage in progressive taxation and programs to enhance economic opportunity for the lower and middle classes.[citation needed]
    You should really read the entire section as it has many more.

    It contains an entire section with nothing but good reasons to support a progressive income tax.

    You are most welcome and I am happy to help.
    Last edited by haymarket; 08-23-11 at 10:27 PM.
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  6. #116
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Let me try again Haymarket

    I disagree with the progessive income tax because it encourages the many to vote for more spending because they don't have to pay for it.

    it also assumes many things I reject. I think if people are forced to pay for the government services they want, they won't vote for more and more government

    you want more and more government

    I do not



  7. #117
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?-wealth-disparity-us-jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    It has been shown that the middle class pays the most crippling amount of income taxes and the middle class is relatively small. Crippling means that the ratio of living expenses to income tax makes it so that despite one’s increased income, the standard of living has not gone up much and there is still significant hardship. It is clear that most making above $250,000 are not crippled by income tax and instead cannot wrap their minds around the concept of progressive taxation (even though the wealthiest find loopholes out of such taxation). So, why is this the case? Why does the middle class shoulder the largest relative tax burden?
    Because the Regressives want to recreate Mexico in the north.... a society of ruling class and peasants. Their plan, seems to be working quite well. Bring on 1929 and Hoover all over again!

    http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/
    Last edited by upsideguy; 08-23-11 at 10:34 PM.

  8. #118
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    An Immoral Tax - WSJ.com
    We are so habituated to the progressive income-tax that most conservatives, fiddling at the margins, fail to focus their ire on the basic immorality of that progressive income-tax, and the social damage it has caused.
    For decades, progressive economists have tried to make what one called "the uneasy case for the progressive income tax" -- without success. That is why the debate about President Bush's tax reforms does not go nearly deep enough. The problem is the progressive income tax itself, and how it has become a cornerstone of the punish-the-rich mentality of the Democratic Party.

    http://www.hoover.org/publications/p.../article/72291

    the second article has a rather sound destruction of the "benefits" argument for progressive income taxes
    First, the basic premise of the protection theory is flawed. Government protections extend to much more than property. The Founding Fathers made clear their vision for America in the Declaration of Independence when they spoke of the “unalienable rights” of all Americans to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” There is no basis for believing that a low-income person’s life is worth more or less to an individual (as contrasted with an insurance actuary, an economist, or a jury assessing damages in a wrongful death case) than the life of a high-income person. The same is true for liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The American military and other protective agencies and institutions of government exist to protect and preserve these rights for all Americans equally, regardless of how rich or poor they are.



  9. #119
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Let me try again Haymarket

    I disagree with the progessive income tax because it encourages the many to vote for more spending because they don't have to pay for it.

    it also assumes many things I reject. I think if people are forced to pay for the government services they want, they won't vote for more and more government

    you want more and more government

    I do not
    Of course you would reject anything that didn't coddle you

  10. #120
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    An Immoral Tax - WSJ.com
    We are so habituated to the progressive income-tax that most conservatives, fiddling at the margins, fail to focus their ire on the basic immorality of that progressive income-tax, and the social damage it has caused.
    For decades, progressive economists have tried to make what one called "the uneasy case for the progressive income tax" -- without success. That is why the debate about President Bush's tax reforms does not go nearly deep enough. The problem is the progressive income tax itself, and how it has become a cornerstone of the punish-the-rich mentality of the Democratic Party.

    http://www.hoover.org/publications/p.../article/72291

    the second article has a rather sound destruction of the "benefits" argument for progressive income taxes
    First, the basic premise of the protection theory is flawed. Government protections extend to much more than property. The Founding Fathers made clear their vision for America in the Declaration of Independence when they spoke of the “unalienable rights” of all Americans to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” There is no basis for believing that a low-income person’s life is worth more or less to an individual (as contrasted with an insurance actuary, an economist, or a jury assessing damages in a wrongful death case) than the life of a high-income person. The same is true for liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The American military and other protective agencies and institutions of government exist to protect and preserve these rights for all Americans equally, regardless of how rich or poor they are.
    Enough with the "punish the rich" straw man already

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