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Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

Should public school teachers be able to call creationism "superstitious nonsense"?


  • Total voters
    50
The best way to handle the situation is to recognize that it's usually only a few students who are interested in the question. Most of the class doesn't give a damn. Of those few students who are interested, some will be locked into a religious framework and won't be swayed by evidence and a few students will care to hear the arguments.

If a teacher really wants to make the effort to reach out to those few students who want to learn, then he can announce that he participates in a quarterly event where he spends one evening at a local church which hosts a debate on the issue, probably a church that is OK with evolution, like those Universalist churches. Invite all students to come on their own time to this debate and then make the case.

It's a huge time suck because it only has benefit for 1 or 2 students who actually want to learn. Mostly the entire premise of the debate is nonsense in that the kids, and most adults, don't have enough knowledge and background knowledge to make informed decisions. This is why teachers TEACH rather than hold socratic dialogues with their students. We don't ask students to independently derive the Avogadro constant, we TELL them. People with more knowledge TELL those with less knowledge what the score is. That's the most efficient way for 1 person to transfer knowledge to 30 other people. Many teachers though are passionate about teaching and so they might want to make the huge time commitment to have a full-on debate just for the benefit of the rare students that are engaged deeply in the learning process.

I do not think the teachers response should be based on what the students want or are interested in. While student-directed learning can be useful in some circumstances, I don't think this is an appropriate place for it.
 
Five Major Misconceptions about Evolution

"Evolution is only a theory; it hasn't been proved."

First, we should clarify what "evolution" means. Like so many other words, it has more than one meaning. Its strict biological definition is "a change in allele frequencies over time." By that definition, evolution is an indisputable fact. Most people seem to associate the word "evolution" mainly with common descent, the theory that all life arose from one common ancestor. Many people believe that there is enough evidence to call this a fact, too. However, common descent is still not the theory of evolution, but just a fraction of it (and a part of several quite different theories as well). The theory of evolution not only says that life evolved, it also includes mechanisms, like mutations, natural selection, and genetic drift, which go a long way towards explaining how life evolved.

Calling the theory of evolution "only a theory" is, strictly speaking, true, but the idea it tries to convey is completely wrong. The argument rests on a confusion between what "theory" means in informal usage and in a scientific context. A theory, in the scientific sense, is "a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena" [Random House American College Dictionary]. The term does not imply tentativeness or lack of certainty. Generally speaking, scientific theories differ from scientific laws only in that laws can be expressed more tersely. Being a theory implies self-consistency, agreement with observations, and usefulness. (Creationism fails to be a theory mainly because of the last point; it makes few or no specific claims about what we would expect to find, so it can't be used for anything. When it does make falsifiable predictions, they prove to be false.)

Lack of proof isn't a weakness, either. On the contrary, claiming infallibility for one's conclusions is a sign of hubris. Nothing in the real world has ever been rigorously proved, or ever will be. Proof, in the mathematical sense, is possible only if you have the luxury of defining the universe you're operating in [such as with math]. In the real world, we must deal with levels of certainty based on observed evidence. The more and better evidence we have for something, the more certainty we assign to it; when there is enough evidence, we label the something a fact, even though it still isn't 100% certain.

What evolution has is what any good scientific claim has--evidence, and lots of it. Evolution is supported by a wide range of observations throughout the fields of genetics, anatomy, ecology, animal behavior, paleontology, and others. If you wish to challenge the theory of evolution, you must address that evidence. You must show that the evidence is either wrong or irrelevant or that it fits another theory better. Of course, to do this, you must know both the theory and the evidence.
 
Creationism is a specific doctrine within a religion. Creationism is not a complete religion of it's own.

You clearly never met Archangel on 4forums.

hahaha. Everything about Christianity was viewed through Literal Creationism. If it did not support YEC, it wasn't part of Christianity to him.
 
And to put it colloquially, "evolution is a proven fact"

It's certainly close enough that we can make predictions based on it, and they prove to be correct. A whole lot of research for vaccines and a cure for HIV is rooted in evolutionary theory, since viruses evolve so quickly.
 
and to put it correctly:

Solipsism strikes again....

Stephen J. Gould: "A 'fact' means something that is so highly probable that it would be silly not to accept it" as is case of evolution.
 
Solipsism strikes again....

Stephen J. Gould: "A 'fact' means something that is so highly probable that it would be silly not to accept it" as is case of evolution.

who is not accepting evolution?
 
and to put it correctly:

They are both correct

And if you want to be pedantic about it, creationism isn't superstitious. It is based on reasoning, even if the reasoning is flawed. Religion can be, and often is, superstitious as it doesn't need to be based on reasoning. Some people believe just because.
 
They are both correct

And if you want to be pedantic about it, creationism isn't superstitious. It is based on reasoning, even if the reasoning is flawed. Religion can be, and often is, superstitious as it doesn't need to be based on reasoning. Some people believe just because.

It's not based on reasoning, it's based on blind faith in a primitive book of superstitious nonsense. You cannot get from point A to point B without that blind faith.
 
It's not based on reasoning, it's based on blind faith in a primitive book of superstitious nonsense. You cannot get from point A to point B without that blind faith.

No it's not. Creationism is supported by reasoning and logic. It's faulty reasoning and logic, but that doesn't make the logic and reason non-existent; just flawed. They get from point A to point B with faulty reasoning and logical fallacies.
 
No it's not. Creationism is supported by reasoning and logic. It's faulty reasoning and logic, but that doesn't make the logic and reason non-existent; just flawed. They get from point A to point B with faulty reasoning and logical fallacies.

Entirely false, unless you're going to redefine "reasoning and logic" to mean something it simply doesn't mean. You're good at redefining terms however you want, unfortunately.
 
Sounded as if you were disputing it's facthood. Apologies if I mistook your response.
 
Entirely false, unless you're going to redefine "reasoning and logic" to mean something it simply doesn't mean. You're good at redefining terms however you want, unfortunately.

No, it's the militant atheists who like to redefine words

Reason | Define Reason at Dictionary.com

rea·son
   [ree-zuhn] Show IPA

noun
1. a basis or cause, as for some belief, action, fact, event, etc.: the reason for declaring war.

2. a statement presented in justification or explanation of a belief or action.

3. the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences.

4. sound judgment; good sense.

5. normal or sound powers of mind; sanity.

Definitions 1&2 (and arguably #3) are what creationists use, but not #4 or #5
 
Definitions 1&2 (and arguably #3) are what creationists use, but not #4 or #5

You're using "a reason" instead of "reason". Two entirely different things.
 
"creationism" i.e., there is a creator for this Earth, as opposed to everything having happened on its own, by accident.

"creationism" i.e., the Earth is only a few thousand years old, and the Adam and Eve story is factual and literal.

Two different things. One based on reason, one based on ancient writings, neither based on science.
 
"creationism" i.e., there is a creator for this Earth, as opposed to everything having happened on its own, by accident.

"intelligent design" i.e., the Earth is only a few thousand years old, and the Adam and Eve story is factual and literal.

Two different things. One based on reason, one based on ancient writings, neither based on science.

Fixed 10char
 
"creationism" i.e., there is a creator for this Earth, as opposed to everything having happened on its own, by accident.

"creationism" i.e., the Earth is only a few thousand years old, and the Adam and Eve story is factual and literal.

Two different things. One based on reason, one based on ancient writings, neither based on science.

That does make a lot of sense as there is more than one way to end up believing in creationism
 
"creationism" i.e., there is a creator for this Earth, as opposed to everything having happened on its own, by accident.

"creationism" i.e., the Earth is only a few thousand years old, and the Adam and Eve story is factual and literal.

Two different things. One based on reason, one based on ancient writings, neither based on science.

there is more than one version of creationism, you have simply picked the most extreme. :shrug:
 
there is more than one version of creationism, you have simply picked the most extreme. :shrug:

Do you have a link that lists the different versions so that we can evaluate your claims, or should we just take it on faith that you're correct?
 
That's not what intelligent design is. That's young-earth creationism.

I got kicked out of my sister-in-law's church because I told them I thought "young earth" creationism was BS. how anyone can deny the physical and astronomical evidence that the earth is billions of years old is beyond me.

I told them you have 2 options:

either you believe the physical evidence and that the earth is very old or you believe that God is a liar and has placed things on earth and in space to make us think the earth is very old.
 
Do you have a link that lists the different versions so that we can evaluate your claims, or should we just take it on faith that you're correct?

young earth vs old earth.

there ^^^ is two, which is more than one. you are wrong AGAIN.

What is Creationism?
 
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