View Poll Results: Should public school teachers be able to call creationism "superstitious nonsense"?

Voters
58. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes; they have freedom of speech and academic freedom

    33 56.90%
  • No; this amounts to the state picking sides on a religious matter

    14 24.14%
  • Other

    11 18.97%
Page 9 of 42 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 412

Thread: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

  1. #81
    Guru
    Aderleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-08-16 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,294

    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post

    I'm actually on the plaintiff's side on this. While I think there is plenty of good reason to be hostile toward creationism, that's no reason for the teacher to make a statement like this. For those who disagree, ask yourself if you would be OK with a teacher saying the same thing about some other doctrine of religious faith: "Judaism is superstitious nonsense," or "the virgin birth is superstitious nonsense," or "not believing in God is superstitious nonsense." I think that whether one agrees with those statements or not, it's a bad precedent to allow government employees to express their personal religious views to a captive audience.

    What do you think?
    I agree wholeheartedly.

  2. #82
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Seen
    03-16-12 @ 11:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,624

    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No. You really don't prove theories. You check and ensure that they correctly predict experimental results.
    Until they are no longer a theory.

  3. #83
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:29 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,325
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Until they are no longer a theory.
    Again, no. They stay theories.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #84
    Guru
    Aderleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-08-16 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,294

    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    Obviously, the US Constitution allows for free speech, so the argument was just, as the statement was protected by the teacher's freedom of speech.
    Of course, a student could speak out against that or the media could, it's all the matter of free speech
    Actually, no. The lower court ruled that the teachers comments violated the establishment clause of the first amendment, but the higher court overturned that ruling on the much narrower reasoning that since there has never been a ruling on this particular issue, the teacher could not have been sufficiently on notice that his conduct was unconstitutional, and consequently he could not be penalized for that conduct. This is one type of qualified immunity.

  5. #85
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:29 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,325
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Actually, no. The lower court ruled that the teachers comments violated the establishment clause of the first amendment, but the higher court overturned that ruling on the much narrower reasoning that since there has never been a ruling on this particular issue, the teacher could not have been sufficiently on notice that his conduct was unconstitutional, and consequently he could not be penalized for that conduct. This is one type of qualified immunity.
    Yeah, I was just looking that up. Here is wiki on qualified immunity: Qualified immunity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    As outlined by the Supreme Court in Harlow v. Fitzgerald, 457 U.S. 800 (1982),[1] qualified immunity is designed to shield government officials from actions "insofar as their conduct does not violate clearly established statutory or constitutional rights of which a reasonable person would have known."
    So as I read it, the teacher was ruled to have been in the wrong, but he gets a pass since it had not been ruled on previously and he had therefore no clear way to know he was in the wrong.

    Edit for accuracy: The court did not actually rule on whether he was in the wrong, but that since he was entitled to qualified immunity, there was no reason for the court to actually make a determination on the legality of his comments.
    Last edited by Redress; 08-21-11 at 05:03 PM.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  6. #86
    Guru
    Aderleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-08-16 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,294

    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So as I read it, the teacher was ruled to have been in the wrong, but he gets a pass since it had not been ruled on previously and he had therefore no clear way to know he was in the wrong.

    Edit for accuracy: The court did not actually rule on whether he was in the wrong, but that since he was entitled to qualified immunity, there was no reason for the court to actually make a determination on the legality of his comments.
    Correct on both counts. To be clear, the lower court did rule substantively on the establishment clause issue (against the teacher). So future teachers are now on notice regarding this issue, and probably would be granted qualified immunity.

  7. #87
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:29 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,325
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Correct on both counts. To be clear, the lower court did rule substantively on the establishment clause issue (against the teacher). So future teachers are now on notice regarding this issue, and probably would be granted qualified immunity.
    At the end, did you mean would not be granted qualified immunity? Since there is a ruling now, they could no longer claim qualified immunity?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #88
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,787

    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Until they are no longer a theory.
    Theories remain theories forever. A scientific theory is a set of statements that attempt to explain an objective fact. There is no question whatsoever that evolution occurs, only an idiot would think otherwise, the theory of evolution attempts to detail how it occurs.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  9. #89
    Guru
    Aderleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-08-16 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,294

    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    At the end, did you mean would not be granted qualified immunity? Since there is a ruling now, they could no longer claim qualified immunity?
    Oops. Yes. That's what I meant.

  10. #90
    White trash on dope.
    d0gbreath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Denton, TX
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,875

    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    We executed that blasphemous Heretic Galileo for conflicting against scripture by claiming that the Sun stood still and that the Earth moved around the Sun.

    Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

    See, The scientist was wrong.

    Let's not start that again. What true believer could possibly be so butt-hurt by a teacher saying creationism is nonsense? I know my faith can withstand much more than that. This is a case of religious people looking for a fight. Check history, it's a common trait of the hypocritical christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


Page 9 of 42 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •