View Poll Results: Should public school teachers be able to call creationism "superstitious nonsense"?

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  • Yes; they have freedom of speech and academic freedom

    33 56.90%
  • No; this amounts to the state picking sides on a religious matter

    14 24.14%
  • Other

    11 18.97%
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Thread: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

  1. #61
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    What experiment could prove that this assertion was false?

    I should have added a smiley face indicating I was not serious about that statement
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The First Amendment also states that the government shall establish no religion, so it isn't quite that simple. Government employees are entitled to freedom of speech like everyone else, but they aren't necessarily entitled to it when they're acting in an official capacity. It's why a teacher can't lead his class in prayer, for example. Or why a federal judge can't have a plaque of the Ten Commandments in his courtroom. They have freedom of speech on their own time, but they cannot act in a way that suggests that the state favors one religion over another. Which is why I'm siding with the plaintiffs on this case.
    There is no establishment of religion in this case, it is a scientific fact that creationism is a load of horsecrap, period.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I think she should not be allowed to say this. It endorses religious ideals that creationism is utterly false. It's an arrogant and moronic statement to make as well. I think it amounts to the state endorsing a side on a religious/scientific issue.
    It's not a religious ideal, it's a fact. Creationism is laughable bunk. It has no credibility whatsoever. It's neither arrogant, nor moronic, it's factually true. The only thing that's moronic is that anyone in the 21st century would still believe such utterly absurd things as creationism. Those people ought to be embarrassed.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Teaching that creationism is bunk is also teaching religion.
    No, it's teaching reality, which is exactly what teachers are supposed to be doing.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    It is inappropriate to mock anothers faith at any time, imho. Because nobody knows for sure, and its disrespectful.

    What he said may have been appropriate to the discussion at hand. How he said it was wrong.
    Respect is earned. If you don't want to be ridiculed for your beliefs, stop believing ridiculous things.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    A Judge is in no position to make such a statement and he is overstepping his bounds. This is an individual choice to be made by each individual based on what they believe and understand.
    I repeat a post I made on Evolution: People need to understand that creationism does not mean evolution can't also be happening. The Lord God set things in motion and gave us free will to make our own minds up about things. He doesn't demand that we believe in Jesus he just presents us the opportunity to believe and I believe that the same is true of this issue. The Lord God gives us information and the ability to decide for ourselves, and I have done that and I believe the Lord God set evolution in motion when he created the heavens ans the earth and even any E.T.s there might be.

    The Bible does not tell us there are no others out there.

    Remember the Bible is the word of God as seen by men who are relating what they believe many years after the events depicted took place and we all know things can be misinterpreted by man.

    Gog bless you all even the dumn-ass judge.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post

    What do you think?
    What if a history teacher fired for saying the holocaust did not happen or what if a science was fired for saying evolution is a load of crap would you say that his first amendment rights were violated? I think a lot of people agree with their firing. Its not a first amendment issue its about a teacher being fired for stepping outside their bounds or what ever it is you want to call it.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 08-21-11 at 02:37 PM.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    Obviously, the US Constitution allows for free speech, so the argument was just, as the statement was protected by the teacher's freedom of speech.
    Of course, a student could speak out against that or the media could, it's all the matter of free speech
    We cannot be a nation with unbridled, unrestricted "free speech".
    There are other considerations - such as respect...
    That this had to come down to a ruling from the courts......speaks volumes for our troubles and ills...
    So, now we need better teachers, those who can think before inserting both their feet into both their mouths...
    The same applies to the students...

  9. #69
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Calling it nonsense is an estimation in poor taste IMO in the company of other people's children, calling it superstition is accurate.
    But should the state really be in the habit of telling people whether their religious beliefs are superstitious?

    What does this have to do with "establishing a religion" Kandahar?
    Substitute some other slightly less absurd religious doctrine, and see if you have a problem with the statement being made by a government official then.

    Was the state "picking sides on a religious matter" in "Kitzmiller v. Dover School District"? Nope, just calling bull**** what it is.
    No that was a separate issue. They were trying to teach intelligent design in a biology class, which obviously doesn't fly because A) it's not biology, and B) it's a religious doctrine. In this case, no one is suggesting that creationism should be taught in schools. (We can pretend the evolution/creation debate doesn't exist at all if you like, as it isn't really relevant to this case.) The question is whether a public school teacher has the right to disparage someone's religion like that.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There is no establishment of religion in this case, it is a scientific fact that creationism is a load of horsecrap, period.
    It's a scientific fact that evolution occurs. Schools can teach the science, and allow students to draw their own conclusions about whether their religious beliefs are a load of horsecrap. Public school teachers should not be disparaging anyone's religion.


    Also, would it change anyone's opinion to know that this guy was an AP History teacher, and not a biology teacher? I'm aware that there may be valid reasons to talk about the issue in a history class, but again, can't that discussion be done without attacking someone's religious beliefs? It's one thing to teach students what the scientific view of the world is, and it's quite another to tell them that their religion is wrong.
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