View Poll Results: Should public school teachers be able to call creationism "superstitious nonsense"?

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  • Yes; they have freedom of speech and academic freedom

    33 56.90%
  • No; this amounts to the state picking sides on a religious matter

    14 24.14%
  • Other

    11 18.97%
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Thread: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

  1. #41
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    Scientifically, creationism is false. It is a matter of faith, not science. He could have chosen a better way to say it, but he doesn't deserve to be sued.
    How has science disproven creationism? It's not scientifically false, many look at scientific evidence that supports the idea that a creator designed life. Science cannot touch on the supernatural or on the concept of God, science can't definitely prove or disprove creationism. However, we can look at scientific evidence that supports the idea of a creator. Evolution is much the same way. Evolution looks at evidence to speculate a conclusion, it cannot be proven through experimental evidence but is merely a model based on evidence of how life diversified. We cannot prove that Fossil A evolved into Fossil B which is now species C. Scientists can only speculate based on evidence.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Be that way then. See if I invite you for barbecue next weekend, ya heathen. So there.
    What if I bring 4-alarm chili?


    Seriously though, your way is perhaps the more technically correct, in a pedantic sense... but I think what my biology teacher said was a more practical approach given the culture (not to mention this was 1979-80, when the controvery over evolution was still very heated, and this was in South Carolina, the buckle on the Bible Belt). He knew he would face questions about creationism vs evolution if he didn't begin by saying something about why he wasn't going to discuss the matter, so he went ahead an did so right at the beginning.
    In that setting, I would say his response was appropriate, but in today's setting I think it isn't. I should have clarified that a bit. I support creationist ideas being taught in comparative religions classes and philosophy classes, though. Of course, in those settings I would say the teacher should be free to offer their opinions on it fully and completely, regardless of whether the support or oppose the concepts.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    If it's dis-proven that makes a statement about whether or not it's a fact. Imho. Ymmv.
    Indeed, if it's disproven. Science does not set out in a pursuit to disprove something.

    This is actually quite a bit of what science is about.
    No it isn't. Science may disprove or prove something but neither is the goal set forth in science.

  4. #44
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Isn't one of the main arguments of creationism that it is a scientific theory and not a religious argument? If that's so, then it must be addressed in a scientific context. To dismiss creationism as nonsense, from a scientific perspective, is spot on. It IS nonsense scientifically.

    Or are creationism and ID not the same thing anymore? I can never keep track of what's being called what anymore... However, both of them are attempting to answer questions in a scientific context, and both fail abysmally to do so. If this teacher was needessly cruel in his comments, then perhaps he should learn to be a little more polite. But his message was spot on. Creationism is just plain not science.

    What is not scientific about saying some all powerfull being or beings created the universe, life on earth
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Indeed, if it's disproven. Science does not set out in a pursuit to disprove something.



    No it isn't. Science may disprove or prove something but neither is the goal set forth in science.
    It is not the goal but part of the process.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    What if I bring 4-alarm chili?
    .

    Hmmm.... I'll think about it.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    How has science disproven creationism? It's not scientifically false, many look at scientific evidence that supports the idea that a creator designed life. Science cannot touch on the supernatural or on the concept of God, science can't definitely prove or disprove creationism. However, we can look at scientific evidence that supports the idea of a creator. Evolution is much the same way. Evolution looks at evidence to speculate a conclusion, it cannot be proven through experimental evidence but is merely a model based on evidence of how life diversified. We cannot prove that Fossil A evolved into Fossil B which is now species C. Scientists can only speculate based on evidence.
    See, you've made this a religious discussion. Religion is based on faith so therefore needs no proof. If you know of proof of creationism from a non-biased source, I would love to see it. Evolution is a scientific theory. While not proved beyond all doubt, it is based on evidence and fact.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Being a consistent "other" sort of guy, I have to say "no" with a qualifier.

    I don't think the classroom is the appropriate place for a teacher to put any of their opinions on parade unless they clearly mark them as opinion and credibly present an opposing viewpoint for students to consider.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    It is not the goal but part of the process.
    Which isn't what this guy said.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    It is inappropriate to mock anothers faith at any time, imho. Because nobody knows for sure, and its disrespectful.

    What he said may have been appropriate to the discussion at hand. How he said it was wrong.
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