View Poll Results: Should public school teachers be able to call creationism "superstitious nonsense"?

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  • Yes; they have freedom of speech and academic freedom

    33 56.90%
  • No; this amounts to the state picking sides on a religious matter

    14 24.14%
  • Other

    11 18.97%
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Thread: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

  1. #321
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    as much is sangha is a dishonest debater, he is arguing on the right path. nothing can be proven absolutely. not by math, logic or anything else. math and logic rest on the assumed truth of premises that cannot be demonstrated as infallible and absolute. with this in mind its silly to define "proven" as "absolutely true" or "fact" because nothing we know of is proven and facts are an entirely different matter. So if we drop the pointless notion that "proven" is something that cannot ever be wrong and that in regards to science, "proven" is a scientific theory that explains a large body of evidence, has undergone rigerous testing without fail, and is accepted by the scientific community. in this context, the theory of gravitation, disease, and evolution are all "proven"
    i guess, if you want to redefine the term "proven"
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  2. #322
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    i guess, if you want to redefine the term "proven"
    i have already explained that the way you define "proven" doesn't apply no matter whether the context is math, physical sciences, or philosophy. Only ignoramuses such as yourself define "proven" in such a way.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    i have already explained that the way you define "proven" doesn't apply no matter whether the context is math, physical sciences, or philosophy. Only ignoramuses such as yourself define "proven" in such a way.
    That would kinda be the point though. Since "proven" does not apply, claiming that evolution is proven is false.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It certainly is. It explicitly invokes a deity.
    Creationism is a specific doctrine within a religion. Creationism is not a complete religion of it's own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Good for you. So what? What does YOUR opinion have to do with someone ELSE holding that religious view?
    Exactly, it's a religious view, not a religion.

    Speaking against creationism in the context of instructing an advanced placement history class is not religious persecution.

  5. #325
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That would kinda be the point though. Since "proven" does not apply, claiming that evolution is proven is false.
    the point is that defining "proven" as "absolutely true" is stupid in the context of math, science, and even philosophy.

    when mathematicians, logicians, or scientists say something is "proven" they dont mean its absolutely true. yet we have people here who constantly think it does. apparently you are included.
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  6. #326
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    as much is sangha is a dishonest debater, he is arguing on the right path. nothing can be proven absolutely. not by math, logic or anything else. math and logic rest on the assumed truth of premises that cannot be demonstrated as infallible and absolute. with this in mind its silly to define "proven" as "absolutely true" or "fact" because nothing we know of is proven and facts are an entirely different matter. So if we drop the pointless notion that "proven" is something that cannot ever be wrong and that in regards to science, "proven" is a scientific theory that explains a large body of evidence, has undergone rigerous testing without fail, and is accepted by the scientific community. in this context, the theory of gravitation, disease, and evolution are all "proven"
    Oscar "demands" for definitions for commonly used figures of speech managed to distract the discussion so off the course that the point seems to have forgotten. Thanks for bringing it back.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    seems, you were wrong and can't bring yourself to admit it, so you deflect. color me surprised
    I deflected? I just gave you the definition that you've been asking for over and over, and you call that a deflection so you can hide the fact that you can't refute what I said?

    My point was, as scourge has so effectively pointed out, that theplaydrives reference to "absolutely proven" is a standard of no significance because NOTHING can be "absolutely proven" by science. That's why I've been referring to "scientifically proven" which is basically a reference to the standards that science uses to test hypotheses in order to assess their value in describing how things work.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #328
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That would kinda be the point though. Since "proven" does not apply, claiming that evolution is proven is false.
    Only for the pedantic fools who think that commonly used figures of speech have no place in discussion. Such fools insist of quibbling over well understood forms of speech, not to further the discussion, but to "win" in a debate and bolster their self-esteem.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Only for the pedantic fools who think that commonly used figures of speech have no place in discussion. Such fools insist of quibbling over well understood forms of speech, not to further the discussion, but to "win" in a debate and bolster their self-esteem.
    Some of us feel that words have meanings, and when you use a word like "proven", which means one thing, trying to use it to mean something completely different is foolish. Evolution is not proven, nor is relatively, nor quantum theory. This is not a negative.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  10. #330
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Some of us feel that words have meanings, and when you use a word like "proven", which means one thing, trying to use it to mean something completely different is foolish. Evolution is not proven, nor is relatively, nor quantum theory. This is not a negative.
    And the rest of KNOW that words have several meanings, and which is used depends on context.

    According to the dictionary, the word proven has several definitions, one of which defines the words pretty much the way I've been using it. Your claim that the word "proven" means one thing is a FAIL
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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