View Poll Results: Should public school teachers be able to call creationism "superstitious nonsense"?

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  • Yes; they have freedom of speech and academic freedom

    33 56.90%
  • No; this amounts to the state picking sides on a religious matter

    14 24.14%
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    11 18.97%
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Thread: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

  1. #201
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    I'm afraid you can't. They are going to ask about it, and probably argue about it as well. I think the best you can do is encourage them to do their own research and come to their own conclusions.
    Pointing out that creationism is superstitious nonsense may not be PC or even terribly tactful, but it is nothing to make a big deal about.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Straw man. No one has claimed that theories are facts in and of themselves. And I haven't claimed that scientific proof is the same as absolute truth.

    Fact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Scientific theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    According to this definition, a theory must be well supported by evidence
    supported by evidence =/= proven. how many theories have later been disproven or modified as technological advances allowed us to gather more, better, or more detailed information? to say a theory has been proven is idiotic.
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  3. #203
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Pointing out that creationism is superstitious nonsense may not be PC or even terribly tactful, but it is nothing to make a big deal about.
    However prayer at a high school event, should go all the way to the supreme court.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Yeah, I agree with you that evolution is the most accurate explanation for how life adapted and I agree that it clearly hasn't been proven until someone can time travel and bring back some evidence. And that list among other things is why I don't worship at the holy grail of scientific theory. I trust scientific theories to a certain extent, but I refuse to treat them as if they are absolutely set in stone and unworthy of ever being questioned.

    However, my point about sangha being partially correct was a reference to recent observations of "microevolution". In other words, evolution has been observed on a certain scale, but not on the scale that sangha's talking about.
    my point is that he is totally and fully incorrect in his statement that according to science, something doesn't become a theory until it is proven. apparently he is confused as to the definition of "proven".

    supported by evidence =/= proven
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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  5. #205
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    eh, what sangha said is not true at all. theories are attempts to explain facts, not facts in and of themselves. throughout the course of history, there have been hundreds, if not thousands, of scientific theories that were later proven wrong.

    Top 10 Most Famous Scientific Theories (That Turned out to be Wrong) | Top 10 Lists | TopTenz.net

    I believe the theory of evolution is currently the most accurate attempt to describe how life came to be and adapted, but it has not, and unless someone invents a time machine or window to the past, can never be scientifically proven.

    sangha obviously has no idea how science really works.
    You're absolutely correct. There is a significant difference between a mathematical theorem and scientific theory. The scientist will accept and explanation, declaring a theory, if many observations reveal no counterexamples or contradictions. The mathematician, on the other hand, will call it a conjecture until he has shown it is sound. That is, when it is validly deduced using known mathematics then it becomes a theorem. Therefore, a scientific theory can be disproven but a mathematical theorem can't.

    Having worked in all three areas, there are some good jokes about the methods of the mathematician, scientist and computer programmer.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    supported by evidence =/= proven.
    well-supported by evidence = scientifically proven

    how many theories have later been disproven or modified as technological advances allowed us to gather more, better, or more detailed information? to say a theory has been proven is idiotic.
    Which is why I was referring to "scientifically proven".
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #207
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    my point is that he is totally and fully incorrect in his statement that according to science, something doesn't become a theory until it is proven. apparently he is confused as to the definition of "proven".

    supported by evidence =/= proven
    Unlike you, tpd has recognized that I was referring to "scientifically proven" and not "absolutely proven". tpd has also clarified that he (for me) was referring to absolutely proven.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    well-supported by evidence = scientifically proven



    Which is why I was referring to "scientifically proven".
    ah,, so scientifically proven = just kinda sorta proven, where as absolutely proven = actually proven. thanks for clearing that up.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    ah,, so scientifically proven = just kinda sorta proven, where as absolutely proven = actually proven.
    I don't know where you saw the words "kinda sorta proven" or anything like that.

    thanks for clearing that up.
    I doubt that has happened
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Unlike you, tpd has recognized that I was referring to "scientifically proven" and not "absolutely proven". tpd has also clarified that he (for me) was referring to absolutely proven.
    so what you are saying is that scientifically proven isn't really proven. thanks again for the clarification
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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