View Poll Results: Should public school teachers be able to call creationism "superstitious nonsense"?

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  • Yes; they have freedom of speech and academic freedom

    33 56.90%
  • No; this amounts to the state picking sides on a religious matter

    14 24.14%
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    11 18.97%
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Thread: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

  1. #191
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Actually...no. It has been proven to a certain extent (enough to make it accepted as truth), but like I said, unless you can show it, it hasn't been proven absolutely.
    Science has shown it, and science doesn't require absolute proof; just scientific proof

    Human Genome Shows Proof of Recent Evolution, Survey Finds
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I have, but you obviously haven't or more likely, you've forgotten or misunderstood what you read.
    prove it. link some definitions or examples.
    Last edited by OscarB63; 08-22-11 at 12:42 PM.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Thanks to those who corrected me on Galileo's death. I do still believe that his house arrest imprisonment probably contributed to his failing health. However, he was not executed for being a Heretic, he was just called one.

    What if God created the universe 14 billion years ago? Suppose that creationists merely have the date wrong.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Science has shown it, and science doesn't require absolute proof; just scientific proof

    Human Genome Shows Proof of Recent Evolution, Survey Finds
    so what is the difference between absolute proof and scientific proof?
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  5. #195
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Science has shown it, and science doesn't require absolute proof; just scientific proof

    Human Genome Shows Proof of Recent Evolution, Survey Finds
    Yeah, that link does nothing for me as I've said that evolution has been observed.

    As far as "absolute proof" vs "scientific proof", the original point made was the evolution hasn't been "proven" and the fact is, it hasn't been proven in a common sense of the word, so your distinction doesn't affect the argument I've been making.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    How do you keep students who have been indoctrinated into the young earth nonsense from bringing the issue up, however?
    you don't, you just tell them that "creationism" is not within the scope of the course and you will not discuss it during class time.
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  7. #197
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    eh, what sangha said is not true at all. theories are attempts to explain facts, not facts in and of themselves. throughout the course of history, there have been hundreds, if not thousands, of scientific theories that were later proven wrong.
    Straw man. No one has claimed that theories are facts in and of themselves. And I haven't claimed that scientific proof is the same as absolute truth.

    Fact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Just as in philosophy, the scientific concept of fact is central to fundamental questions regarding the nature, methods, scope and validity of scientific reasoning.

    In the most basic sense, a scientific fact is an objective and verifiable observation, in contrast with a hypothesis or theory, which is intended to explain or interpret facts.[20] (For an example, see Evolution as theory and fact.)
    Scientific theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence. Many scientific theories are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics). One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed.[10]

    According to this definition, a theory must be well supported by evidence. Furthermore, the term theory would not be appropriate for describing untested but intricate hypotheses or even scientific models. Consumers of science may find the above definition useful when evaluating the validity and/or efficacy of a theory.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #198
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    Ever heard of the First Amendment?
    Sure have, and it allows for the free practice of religion. So if we can't have a prayer at a school event, then the teacher needs to STFU.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Yeah, that link does nothing for me as I've said that evolution has been observed.

    As far as "absolute proof" vs "scientific proof", the original point made was the evolution hasn't been "proven" and the fact is, it hasn't been proven in a common sense of the word, so your distinction doesn't affect the argument I've been making.
    If you meant "proven" as the word is commonly used, then yes, you are correct. I assumed you were referring to scientific proof. My bad
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #200
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    eh, what sangha said is not true at all. theories are attempts to explain facts, not facts in and of themselves. throughout the course of history, there have been hundreds, if not thousands, of scientific theories that were later proven wrong.

    Top 10 Most Famous Scientific Theories (That Turned out to be Wrong) | Top 10 Lists | TopTenz.net

    I believe the theory of evolution is currently the most accurate attempt to describe how life came to be and adapted, but it has not, and unless someone invents a time machine or window to the past, can never be scientifically proven.

    sangha obviously has no idea how science really works.
    Yeah, I agree with you that evolution is the most accurate explanation for how life adapted and I agree that it clearly hasn't been proven until someone can time travel and bring back some evidence. And that list among other things is why I don't worship at the holy grail of scientific theory. I trust scientific theories to a certain extent, but I refuse to treat them as if they are absolutely set in stone and unworthy of ever being questioned.

    However, my point about sangha being partially correct was a reference to recent observations of "microevolution". In other words, evolution has been observed on a certain scale, but not on the scale that sangha's talking about.

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