View Poll Results: Should public school teachers be able to call creationism "superstitious nonsense"?

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  • Yes; they have freedom of speech and academic freedom

    33 56.90%
  • No; this amounts to the state picking sides on a religious matter

    14 24.14%
  • Other

    11 18.97%
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Thread: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

  1. #161
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    You know, it's probably true to some degree. So what? Reality is what reality is. I'm certainly not butt-hurt by reality, why are the religious?

    Why must evolution and religious belief be mutually exclusive anyway? How then to explain biologists and etc. who are also religious?

    I just don't see why a history teacher would be using his classroom as a bully pulpit.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    Semantics. Two ways of saying the same thing.
    It's actually not saying the same thing at all.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    It's actually not saying the same thing at all.
    Read The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins, then get back to me on that one.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    Read The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins, then get back to me on that one.
    Already have, like I said, it's not the same thing at all. Try again and this time do it with your own arguments instead of those from a man whose ideas you probably worship as divine.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Why must evolution and religious belief be mutually exclusive anyway? How then to explain biologists and etc. who are also religious?
    Very, very few are, among scientists, religiosity is extremely low, but the simple fact is, scientific expertise does not necessarily inoculate you against irrationality. Clearly, evolution and religious belief are not mutually exclusive, there are plenty of people, the majority in fact, who accept both, but that doesn't change the fact that there is no scientific validity to religion, it's a superstition, nothing more.

    I just don't see why a history teacher would be using his classroom as a bully pulpit.
    How is telling the truth a bully pulpit? If he said the holocaust happened, should the holocaust deniers decry his words as offensive? Reality is what reality is. Creationism *IS* superstitious nonsense. All the complaining in the world isn't going to change that.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Actually, it belongs in history classes and classes about society or religion in general. It doesn't, however, belong in science classes.
    As a discussion of motivations, etc., sure. Religious beliefs make people do things. That doesn't make the religious beliefs valid, true or worthwhile.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Already have, like I said, it's not the same thing at all. Try again and this time do it with your own arguments instead of those from a man whose ideas you probably worship as divine.
    Oh please. You really need to put away this silly emotional attachment to your own arguments. It's clouding your reasoning skills. If you have read it, then offer a counter argument instead of accusing me of something that you know to be untrue.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    Oh please. You really need to put away this silly emotional attachment to your own arguments. It's clouding your reasoning skills. If you have read it, then offer a counter argument instead of accusing me of something that you know to be untrue.
    Calling creationism "superstitious nonsense" is an opinion. Calling creationism "unsupported by science" is a fact. Opinions and facts are different. Get it?

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    "Creationism is superstitious nonsense" is not speaking truth, it's giving one's crass opinion. Saying "creationism is a religious belief unsupported by scientific evidence" is speaking truth.
    You've actually changed my mind with that. Though I still beleive that what the teacher said is true, your formulation is much more appropriate for a public school setting. The teacher should be more mindful of the impact of such harsh language and should strive be "non-partisan" about issues which fall outside the subject matter of the class they are teaching
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Calling creationism "superstitious nonsense" is an opinion. Calling creationism "unsupported by science" is a fact. Opinions and facts are different. Get it?
    Far too many do not...The line can be blurry.
    And a great, if not far too many, do consider Creationism as a fact....or a least a distinct possibility....not to be rejected out of hand.

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