View Poll Results: Should public school teachers be able to call creationism "superstitious nonsense"?

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  • Yes; they have freedom of speech and academic freedom

    33 56.90%
  • No; this amounts to the state picking sides on a religious matter

    14 24.14%
  • Other

    11 18.97%
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Thread: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

  1. #131
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I'm just going to ask, because I do it everytime this comes up.

    1) Some people believe very passionately that the Moon Landing was faked (as we've seen in this very forum). Should that be taught as an alternative view of history?

    2) Some people believe that the Earth is in fact, flat. Should that be taught as an alternative view of geography? (Actually, the basis for their belief can be found in the very same place as the Creationist belief. At least they say it's Biblical...)
    This issue doesn't have anything to do with teaching creationism as an alternative view of biology. It's about whether or not a teacher should have a right to disparage a religious viewpoint.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This issue doesn't have anything to do with teaching creationism as an alternative view of biology. It's about whether or not a teacher should have a right to disparage a religious viewpoint.
    You know how these threads are. They take on a life of their own.

    But to play, what if a teacher said that "People who believe the Earth is flat are lunatics?"


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    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  3. #133
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I'm just going to ask, because I do it everytime this comes up.

    1) Some people believe very passionately that the Moon Landing was faked (as we've seen in this very forum). Should that be taught as an alternative view of history?

    2) Some people believe that the Earth is in fact, flat. Should that be taught as an alternative view of geography? (Actually, the basis for their belief can be found in the very same place as the Creationist belief. At least they say it's Biblical...)
    Some people believe that diversity is good. Should that be taught in school? Oh wait, this myth is being taught in schools. Hmm. Bad example.

    Some people believe that competition between students is a bad thing. Should schools stress cooperative learning? Oh wait, this is what is happening.

  4. #134
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    You know how these threads are. They take on a life of their own.

    But to play, what if a teacher said that "People who believe the Earth is flat are lunatics?"
    That viewpoint, unlike creationism, is not typically associated with religion. So I think he would be well within his rights to make that statement. Creationism is quite different IMO, because the crux of the belief is that the earth and its animals were created by a god in their present form. This is necessarily a religious viewpoint, as it invokes a deity.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That viewpoint, unlike creationism, is not typically associated with religion. So I think he would be well within his rights to make that statement. Creationism is quite different IMO, because the crux of the belief is that the earth and its animals were created by a god in their present form. This is necessarily a religious viewpoint, as it invokes a deity.
    Really??? What sort of thinking led to the belief that the world is flat, if not religious thinking? It is absolutely a religious viewpoint. But because it's not a popular one, suddenly it doesn't count? I smell hypocrisy.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    Really??? What sort of thinking led to the belief that the world is flat, if not religious thinking?
    I'm not aware of any religion that holds that viewpoint. It seems like just a silly thing to believe that would no more be likely held by religious folks than non-religious folks.

    It is absolutely a religious viewpoint. But because it's not a popular one, suddenly it doesn't count? I smell hypocrisy.
    Creationism explicitly invokes a deity, so there is no question about it being a religious view. Flat-earthism doesn't invoke any deity and isn't commonly associated with any religion that I know of, so I think that's a much tougher case to make. Maybe there is some religion out there that believes it, but then I think the question is whether a reasonable person who heard the public school teacher make that statement would think that a religion was being disparaged.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    Really??? What sort of thinking led to the belief that the world is flat, if not religious thinking? It is absolutely a religious viewpoint.

    HUH?????????????


    The type of thinking that led to the belief that the world was flat had nothing to do with religion, it was based on observation. It is very difficult to see the Earth's curvature when one is looking about while standing on the Earth. One has to go to a higher elevation in order to see tantalizing hints of curvature but even then one has to understand what one is seeing in order to place the visual clues into context. That's what led to the belief that the world is flat.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    One has to go to a higher elevation in order to see tantalizing hints of curvature but even then one has to understand what one is seeing in order to place the visual clues into context.
    One can also observe ships as they sail out to sea to conclude that the Earth is curved.

    Or observe shadows cast at different locations on the same day of the year. (Or you can just read about how shadows are cast in one place at a certain time on a certain day and then observe observe how shadows are cast at a different location at that time and on that day, sort of like how Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth).

    IOW, there are actually a few visual cues to the Earth roundness that don't involve higher elevations, but they aren't really going to be that obvious to most people.

    Also, very few knowledgeable people really believed the Earth is flat for a very long time now.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 08-21-11 at 11:42 PM.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Some people believe that diversity is good. Should that be taught in school? Oh wait, this myth is being taught in schools. Hmm. Bad example.
    Yes. Yes it is a bad example in the sense that the one has nothing to do with the other. Diversity is not a "myth." It's an ideal. It is sometimes pushed in idiotic ways, but it is not a "myth."

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    HUH?????????????


    The type of thinking that led to the belief that the world was flat had nothing to do with religion, it was based on observation. It is very difficult to see the Earth's curvature when one is looking about while standing on the Earth. One has to go to a higher elevation in order to see tantalizing hints of curvature but even then one has to understand what one is seeing in order to place the visual clues into context. That's what led to the belief that the world is flat.
    The belief in gods was based on observation too. It was just a very egocentric interpretation of what they observed. You never studied much religion, did you?

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