View Poll Results: Should public school teachers be able to call creationism "superstitious nonsense"?

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  • Yes; they have freedom of speech and academic freedom

    33 56.90%
  • No; this amounts to the state picking sides on a religious matter

    14 24.14%
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    11 18.97%
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Thread: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

  1. #111
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually, science has nothing to do with creationism, and doesn't really have a position on it. However, creationism is clearly religion, and as such, a government official(which a teacher is) should not b e taking a position on it in their role as a teacher.
    Agreed. I think that a teacher saying that "The scientific evidence strongly supports evolution, and is inconsistent with young-earth hypotheses where animals have always existed in their current forms" is far different from saying that "Creationism is superstitious nonsense." One is a scientific statement of fact, the other is a judgment about a person's religious views.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually, science has nothing to do with creationism, and doesn't really have a position on it. However, creationism is clearly religion, and as such, a government official(which a teacher is) should not b e taking a position on it in their role as a teacher.
    I beg to differ here. The religious right continue to seek to give creationism equal time in the classroom as an "alternative viewpoint" to science. This places science in a position that must be defended.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    I beg to differ here. The religious right continue to seek to give creationism equal time in the classroom as an "alternative viewpoint" to science. This places science in a position that must be defended.
    Defending science is not the same as attacking someone's religion.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Defending science is not the same as attacking someone's religion.
    Creationism is a religious viewpoint. Not a religion. And it has been placed in direct competition with science. Have you ever looked at a creationist textbook? The text seeks to arrest the burgeoning scientific curiosity of the students. It seeks to make them stop asking questions and instead be satisfied with the answer "God did it." Calling that "religious nonsense" is not an attack on religion. It is a defense of the right of the students to ask "why" and to look for answers in places outside their sacred scriptures.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    Ever heard of the First Amendment?
    Doesn't apply in a public school classroom... trust me, I found out the hard way...
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    I beg to differ here. The religious right continue to seek to give creationism equal time in the classroom as an "alternative viewpoint" to science. This places science in a position that must be defended.
    And the "religious right" are wrong to try and place creationism in science classrooms. That does not mean that science teachers should take a position on religious topics in their role as teachers.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    Creationism is a religious viewpoint. Not a religion.
    That's a pretty blurry distinction, since religions are essentially just a collection of "religious viewpoints."

    And it has been placed in direct competition with science. Have you ever looked at a creationist textbook? The text seeks to arrest the burgeoning scientific curiosity of the students. It seeks to make them stop asking questions and instead be satisfied with the answer "God did it." Calling that "religious nonsense" is not an attack on religion.
    Yes it is. Regardless of the scientific flaws of the belief, or the societal ills it creates, it is not the government's place to take a position on whether or not it's "superstitious nonsense." By all means teach the scientific reality, but there is no need to attack someone's religion in order to do that.

    It is a defense of the right of the students to ask "why" and to look for answers in places outside their sacred scriptures.
    No it isn't. That can be done without taking an explicit position on their religion.
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    he was a history teacher, no? He shouldn't be discussing either of them, TBH.
    Actually, EVERYTHING has a history -- including both religion and science, and as such are part of any complete history curriculum...
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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And the "religious right" are wrong to try and place creationism in science classrooms. That does not mean that science teachers should take a position on religious topics in their role as teachers.
    It does if the religious topic is in direct contradiction to science. Science has found evidence that shows our universe has been around for roughly 13.75 billion years. Creationists claim it is a little over 6000 years old.

    These two claims are in direct contradiction. They cannot both be correct. A science teacher faced with creationist teachings is duty bound call them "religious nonsense." Doing so jolts the students into a state in which they are able to decide for themselves who to believe. Without that jolt, they might go on being happy idiots for the rest of their days.

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    Re: Judges rule for teacher who called creationism "superstitious nonsense"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yes it is. Regardless of the scientific flaws of the belief, or the societal ills it creates, it is not the government's place to take a position on whether or not it's "superstitious nonsense." By all means teach the scientific reality, but there is no need to attack someone's religion in order to do that.
    It's not a matter of the "governments position." It is a matter of the teachers responsibility to their students. Attacking a single viewpoint of a religion is not an attack on the religion. There are lots of Christians that believe in evolution and the laws of physics. It is only those things which religion tries to teach which are explicitly shown to be incorrect which teachers should address. Note that we no longer believe our Sun revolves around the Earth - religion survived that one.. it can survive this. But teachers should not tolerate falsehoods to be taught in the schools.

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