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Thread: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Ah, I see. Typically "close the borders" implies that nobody gets in (or out, for that matter).

    The one thing I would add is that, to my knowledge, terrorists have never entered the US illegally. They tend to come here legally and then overstay their visas. Bringing up terrorism when discussing illegal immigration is pointless because terrorism is pretty much unrelated to illegal immigration, at least where the borders are concerned.



    Overstaying one's visa is a different matter which would require a totally different solution than securing the borders.


    To your knowledge or mine or the govts unless they arent admitting it...that doesnt mean terrorists havent gotten through...its not like its reallly a hard thing to do...I believe theres a very good chance terrorists have passever over our mexican border.
    Terrorists aside, illegal immigration is a scourge that is not only dividing the country and OUR OWN CITIZENS...its costing us tons we just cant afford and should be going to americans...its time it stopped.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    To your knowledge or mine or the govts unless they arent admitting it...that doesnt mean terrorists havent gotten through...its not like its reallly a hard thing to do...I believe theres a very good chance terrorists have passever over our mexican border.
    Appeal to fear fallacies are fallacies.

    It's far easier to enter the country legally and overstay one's visa than it is to enter illegally. Even with the increased scrutiny at airports.

    Crossing the border illegally is difficult. Astronomically more difficult than getting on an airplane is.

    P.S. If terrorists were trying to enter illegally, they would probably be smart enough to use the Canadian border since it is far easier to do so.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 08-23-11 at 08:04 AM.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Appeal to fear fallacies are fallacies.

    It's far easier to enter the country legally and overstay one's visa than it is to enter illegally. Even with the increased scrutiny at airports.

    Crossing the border illegally is difficult. Astronomically more difficult than getting on an airplane is.



    P.S. If terrorists were trying to enter illegally, they would probably be smart enough to use the Canadian border since it is far easier to do so.

    Ok I agree, but that isnt the real issue...illegal immigration is right tuck :} But I stand by my statement that you nor I nor the govt may know if terrorists have entered over the mexican border or not

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Ok I agree, but that isnt the real issue...illegal immigration is right tuck...
    Exactly my point. The fallacious appeal to emotion was a disservice to a serious discussion on the issue.


    But I stand by my statement that you nor I nor the govt may know if terrorists have entered over the mexican border or not
    And I will maintain that this is not a valid logical argument.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    The way we are approaching this issue, as we are with many other issues, seems to be done primarily out of fear and not out of reason. We can't even get this debate off the ground before we get the fear-mongering out of it.

    Oh, and I gotta love the subtle racism in the use of the word "illegals." Where in the law does it say that a person is illegal--not their actions, but their very persona, breaks the law?

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Oh, and I gotta love the subtle racism in the use of the word "illegals." Where in the law does it say that a person is illegal--not their actions, but their very persona, breaks the law?
    I use the term "illegals". I'll even use that term to describe my father, who was an illegal himself when he first came here from Ireland. I'm openly "pro-illegal".

    And, just so you know, accusing people of racism for using the word "illegals" actually means the accuser is racist, IMO.

    Illegal immigrants are not one race. There are illegal immigrants from every race, religion, and creed.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I use the term "illegals". I'll even use that term to describe my father, who was an illegal himself when he first came here from Ireland. I'm openly "pro-illegal".

    And, just so you know, accusing people of racism for using the word "illegals" actually means the accuser is racist, IMO.

    Illegal immigrants are not one race. There are illegal immigrants from every race, religion, and creed.
    LOL, I've been called a lot of things, but racist? That's been awhile. Was wondering when someone was gonna blindly try to put that label on me.

    Come on, man, you're a self-professed socialist. You should know better. When a person's very persona is what becomes illegal and not their actions, we have a serious problem. And guess where the immigrants that some Caucasian Americans hate come from?

    That said, I do agree that there is more than one nation that sends its people to this great nation of ours. Now the trick is what to do with them all, which is the entire point behind this debate.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Come on, man, you're a self-professed socialist. You should know better.
    Just so you know, my lean is "socialist" as a joke. I've always screwed with my lean since none of the options accurately describe me. It might be "very conservative" tomorrow.

    When a person's very persona is what becomes illegal and not their actions, we have a serious problem.
    Personally, I like using the term while describing a former illegal (my father) who became a small businessman and citizen that paid more in taxes in his lifetime than the majority of those who would choose to hate him for how he entered the country. I also use the term while promoting the value of illegals while denouncing many of our native-born citizens. I even use anti-amnesty research to make that particular argument, which is fun.

    I also make the point that all immigrants, both legal and illegal, have done far more to deserve to be in this country than most native-born Americans have because, unlike the native-born, immigrants have to work hard to get here (and we are a country that values the effort put into achieving something, no?).

    Native-born people didn't do **** to deserve their status. They are just lucky through accident of birth. Some rectify that by serving in the military, but most do not. That makes those people less than illegals in my eyes (I am in this particular group myself).



    And guess where the immigrants that some Caucasian Americans hate come from?
    Who cares what country they come from? It's not their race which drives the hate.

    That said, I do agree that there is more than one nation that sends its people to this great nation of ours. Now the trick is what to do with them all, which is the entire point behind this debate.
    Nations do not send their people here. People choose to leave their nations in order to earn a better life in the US through hard work and determination. In order to figure out "what to do with them all" we first need to have a realistic understanding of what they are doing with themselves.

    There is a popular myth that gets spread that illegal immigrants are lazy people leeching off of society. But in truth, the reverse is true. They work their asses off and have little to no access to tax monies in general. Their American-born children have some access to such monies, but overall they use far fewer resources than the majority of natural born citizens do, while also contributing to the tax pool. Essentially, they pay more than they take.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Just so you know, my lean is "socialist" as a joke. I've always screwed with my lean since none of the options accurately describe me. It might be "very conservative" tomorrow.



    Personally, I like using the term while describing a former illegal (my father) who became a small businessman and citizen that paid more in taxes in his lifetime than the majority of those who would choose to hate him for how he entered the country. I also use the term while promoting the value of illegals while denouncing many of our native-born citizens. I even use anti-amnesty research to make that particular argument, which is fun.

    I also make the point that all immigrants, both legal and illegal, have done far more to deserve to be in this country than most native-born Americans have because, unlike the native-born, immigrants have to work hard to get here (and we are a country that values the effort put into achieving something, no?).

    Native-born people didn't do **** to deserve their status. They are just lucky through accident of birth. Some rectify that by serving in the military, but most do not. That makes those people less than illegals in my eyes (I am in this particular group myself).





    Who cares what country they come from? It's not their race which drives the hate.



    Nations do not send their people here. People choose to leave their nations in order to earn a better life in the US through hard work and determination. In order to figure out "what to do with them all" we first need to have a realistic understanding of what they are doing with themselves.

    There is a popular myth that gets spread that illegal immigrants are lazy people leeching off of society. But in truth, the reverse is true. They work their asses off and have little to no access to tax monies in general. Their American-born children have some access to such monies, but overall they use far fewer resources than the majority of natural born citizens do, while also contributing to the tax pool. Essentially, they pay more than they take.


    Nations do not send their people here. People choose to leave their nations in order to earn a better life in the US through hard work and determination. In order to figure out "what to do with them all" we first need to have a realistic understanding of what they are doing with themselves.

    There is a popular myth that gets spread that illegal immigrants are lazy people leeching off of society. But in truth, the reverse is true. They work their asses off and have little to no access to tax monies in general. Their American-born children have some access to such monies, but overall they use far fewer resources than the majority of natural born citizens do, while also contributing to the tax pool.


    Theres alot wrong with your statements above but let me start with Hailing Your father...hes a fine example of an american...unfortunately he represents a tiny minute minority of illegals that ever become successful such as he.

    Nations do not send their people here...not true, Cuba opened up their mental institutions and prisons and sent them to the USA.
    I never said Illegals are all lazy...some are the ones that come here with criminal intent and have no intention of ever working and please dont put your head in the sand and try and say there arent illegals coming here with criminal intent. Illegals having no access to tax money is a bold faced misconception...just in healthcare alone they access BILLIONS upon billions in emergency room costs, those costs are borne by every single american taxpayer, then theres the cost of public education with its free breakfast and free lunch programs that can cost 20 grand per illegal student.. There are states with utter idiot politicians that are passing laws giving illegals more of our tax money like california giving them free money to go to college.
    While I have no hatred of illegals whatsoever, I hate that our country is broke, that we have almost 10% of fellow americans out work...that we have the teaparty attacking seniors and the poor and giving illegals a total pass...pisses me off....it needs to stop

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Where is the poll?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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