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Thread: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    ... I wished to duplicate the structure of her argument.
    Then you failed miserably at it. Her argument was a thought terminating cliche. In order to duplicate that, you would have had to respond with another thought terminating cliche. "two's company, three's a crowd" would have done this adequately. What you posited was simply a miserable failure if that was your intention.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Certainly those aren't the positive parts of population density, but there obviously are major positives too. There is a reason that the most expensive real estate in the country, by orders of magnitude, is in the most densely populated places. It also means more theaters, more stores within walking distance of your house, more people that are into whatever it is you're into nearby, higher wages, rising property values, more companies starting, more innovation, etc.
    High population density means more innovation and more companies starting? Well, I take it that you've never been to hellholes like Karachi or Lagos, which are near the top of cities as ranked by population density compared to San Francisco which is down at #104. Those high wage meccas, like Karachi and Lagos must be drawing lots of folks like you who are in search of all these great things that increased population density brings. So when are you packing to find more enrichment in the cultural and economic super cities of Karachi and Lagos? You should really leave dowdy ol' San Francisco behind, what with it being only #104 on the list of population dense cities.

    Now, overpopulation is a real problem- it creates strains on the planet that are tough to sustain. But that equation works out the same regardless of which country the people are in. As long as they're on earth, they're going to have that impact.
    Do you even stop to take a gulp from all of the liberal propaganda that is firehosed down your throat? A Western lifestyle has far more environmental impact than a non-Western lifestyle. It most assuredly matters where the people live and how they live.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    ...saying something like "the more the merrier" then it is not an appeal to fear to point out that when the glass overflows the water will spill onto the floor.
    See post #70 for an explanation of your flawed assumption regarding the cliche.

  4. #74
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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    High population density means more innovation and more companies starting? Well, I take it that you've never been to hellholes like Karachi or Lagos, which are near the top of cities as ranked by population density compared to San Francisco which is down at #104. Those high wage meccas, like Karachi and Lagos must be drawing lots of folks like you who are in search of all these great things that increased population density brings. So when are you packing to find more enrichment in the cultural and economic super cities of Karachi and Lagos? You should really leave dowdy ol' San Francisco behind, what with it being only #104 on the list of population dense cities.
    You understand that there are more factors in determining wages than just population density, right? Compare wages, for example, between Lagos and rural Nigeria...

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Do you even stop to take a gulp from all of the liberal propaganda that is firehosed down your throat? A Western lifestyle has far more environmental impact than a non-Western lifestyle. It most assuredly matters where the people live and how they live.
    Interesting that you see ignoring the higher resource utilization of first world countries as a liberal thing. Goofball.

    That said, you do raise a fair point. How people live definitely matters, but that doesn't really change all that much when somebody comes to the US. They don't like sudden get handed SUVs and 5 bedroom air conditioned houses as they cross the border. Also, people in the first world have far fewer children, so that potentially would offset the increased consumption.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Horrible question, because one doesn't preclude the other.

    My option would be secure the border. Its what I feel like we absolutely need to do first nad foremost.

    I'm fine with discussing forms of "amnesty" at some point after that, but no before. But they're not muturally exclusive.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Horrible question, because one doesn't preclude the other.

    My option would be secure the border. Its what I feel like we absolutely need to do first nad foremost.

    I'm fine with discussing forms of "amnesty" at some point after that, but no before. But they're not muturally exclusive.

    I agree, I agree, I agree...CLOSE THE BORDER stop our bleeding

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I agree, I agree, I agree...CLOSE THE BORDER stop our bleeding
    By "close the border" do you mean that you oppose all immigration?

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Horrible question, because one doesn't preclude the other.

    My option would be secure the border. Its what I feel like we absolutely need to do first nad foremost.

    I'm fine with discussing forms of "amnesty" at some point after that, but no before. But they're not muturally exclusive.
    I understand and even sympathize with that position.

    However, the reason why so many illegal aliens try to get past our border is because immigration and migration is so bureaucratic and expensive. This is what causes illegal immigrants to migrate illegally - because the legal routes are too difficult for most foreigners to navigate.

    So I would have to say that stricter border control would have to come about at the same time as immigration reform. Dealing with the latter will exponentially help in dealing with the former.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    By "close the border" do you mean that you oppose all immigration?
    No I dont mean that at all. We have to stop the insanity of anyone of any mindset and intentions just running over the border. Criminals, Drug Cartels, Terrorists, we have no idea who comes in here not only by the month week or day but by the minute.
    The lets feel sorry for them goes out the window when you consider all the american victims and the cost to us WHICH WE CANT AFFORD ANYMORE. The we need the labor goes out the window...because we have the ability to adjust the amount of LEGAL IMMIGRATION we allow so we can control it to a degree.
    There are absolutely NO reasons that make any sense to let this rape of our border and country and in many cases our citizens continue the way it is.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    No I dont mean that at all. We have to stop the insanity of anyone of any mindset and intentions just running over the border. Criminals, Drug Cartels, Terrorists, we have no idea who comes in here not only by the month week or day but by the minute.
    The lets feel sorry for them goes out the window when you consider all the american victims and the cost to us WHICH WE CANT AFFORD ANYMORE. The we need the labor goes out the window...because we have the ability to adjust the amount of LEGAL IMMIGRATION we allow so we can control it to a degree.
    There are absolutely NO reasons that make any sense to let this rape of our border and country and in many cases our citizens continue the way it is.
    Ah, I see. Typically "close the borders" implies that nobody gets in (or out, for that matter).

    The one thing I would add is that, to my knowledge, terrorists have never entered the US illegally. They tend to come here legally and then overstay their visas (in the cases where they were here "illegally"). Bringing up terrorism when discussing illegal immigration is relatively pointless because terrorism is an unrelated issue to illegal immigration, at least where the borders are concerned.

    Overstaying one's visa is a different matter which would require a totally different solution than securing the borders.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 08-23-11 at 07:53 AM.

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