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Thread: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

  1. #51
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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I absolutely agree the laws need to be changed regarding the hiring of illegals. But what you are essentially saying is "your honor...we opened the gates, windows and doors, made a bed for them, offered them a seat at our table, asked them to mow our lawn, clean our house, and watch our children and paid them off the books (and a HELL of a lot less than minimum wage) and let them live with us for 30 years. We just dont think its right and they should have to go back home now."
    I do not know about you or your family but me and my family has never opened any gates,doors and windows for illegals and let illegals live with us for 30 years. Nor has anyone one in my family ever hired an illegal to mow our lawns, clean our house or watch our kids,we do those things ourselves, or if can not do those things ourselves we pay honest companies to do those things. Illegals should be jailed for a certain period of time and then deported, The traitorous rats who hire, house or aid illegals in any way should be thrown in prison, severely fined and be subject to assets seizure and forfeiture up a guilty conviction.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #52
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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    This is what I would call treason. You are aligning yourself with the interests of foreigners over those of the US and over the interests of America's net tax-paying class. You want to burden that class with an even greater number of people that they have to subsidize.

    Having a redistribution debate which is focused only on the interests of American citizens is one type of debate but to purposely agitate to exacerbate that debate by aligning yourself with the interests of foreigners is really crossing the line.
    You are blurring the lines of legal versus illegal immigration. Nearly all of us are descendants of immigrants, immigrants who came here legally. I'm all for immigration. The more the merrier. We already have about a million legal immigrants a year. We know who they are, we know where they are, we know what they are doing. The problems occur when we have a million and a half illegal immigrants a year. We do not know who they are, we do not know where they are, we do not know what they are doing, but we do know that they are using stolen green card and social security numbers in order to work here, which, among other things, causes no end of grief to the legal residents and citizens to whom those numbers belong.

    Please don't confuse legal immigrants with illegal ones.
    Last edited by DiAnna; 08-21-11 at 04:52 PM.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    I would prefer Mexico not being ****ed up. All we're talking about here are solutions to the symptom, not the problem.

    To add, i'm generally a proponent of more open borders and easier paths to citizenship (even when immigrants to arrive here legally, they have navigate ****loads of red tape just to get a green card. Some have to wait years, even a decade, just to get a ****ing answer from the bureaucracy.)
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 08-21-11 at 05:13 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Nearly all of us are descendants of immigrants, immigrants who came here legally.
    What was right in the past MUST also be right in the present. In the past, husbands used to have total freedom to beat their wives to within an inch of their lives, so if this was the accepted practice in the past, then it stands to reason that it should also remain the accepted practice today. Right?

    I'm all for immigration. The more the merrier.
    The San Francisco area has a population of 7,500,000, so what is the ideal population target, 25,000,000 or 50,000,000? How about population density? If a family wants to live in a suburb rather than a dense urban environment, what is the ideal distance and commute time to the urban boundary? 5 miles, 50 miles, 250 miles? In the past there were no watering restrictions placed on homeowners, today such restrictions are common as a means of stretching the water supply. In the future, the glorious high population future, what is the ideal allotment of water that we should allow each person to have per day? 1 gallon? 5 gallons?


    The more the merrier you say? Hey China and India, don't stop breeding because pretty soon you're going to be displaced on the list of the world's most populous countries as the US is charging up from behind as we eagerly race to having a billion people here. No one here thinks that crowds are bad. We just love sitting in traffic for 2 hours per day. In fact, we're looking forward to enjoying the Chinese experience of sometimes getting stuck in traffic for days. That must be such a treat and we're so jealous that we don't yet have Chinese levels of population which allows us to give our citizens that special treat. In fact, no one here ever complains about how crowded nature trails and natural parks are - we want more people in the country so that we can have more cars clogging up the national parks, bigger landfills, more rationing, higher housing costs, higher food costs, higher taxes, mmm, mmm, good, so say we all.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    What was right in the past MUST also be right in the present. In the past, husbands used to have total freedom to beat their wives to within an inch of their lives, so if this was the accepted practice in the past, then it stands to reason that it should also remain the accepted practice today. Right?
    Nice strawman and red herring combo! She made a simple statement of fact, not an appeal to tradition argument.

    Being right in the past doesn't automatically make it right now, but it also doesn't make it wrong now, either.

    And appeal to fear fallacies still remain fallacies, in case you were wondering.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I do not know about you or your family but me and my family has never opened any gates,doors and windows for illegals and let illegals live with us for 30 years. Nor has anyone one in my family ever hired an illegal to mow our lawns, clean our house or watch our kids,we do those things ourselves, or if can not do those things ourselves we pay honest companies to do those things. Illegals should be jailed for a certain period of time and then deported, The traitorous rats who hire, house or aid illegals in any way should be thrown in prison, severely fined and be subject to assets seizure and forfeiture up a guilty conviction.
    I dont think you have...but can you really not see that as a country that is precisely what we have done?

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Nice strawman and red herring combo! She made a simple statement of fact, not an appeal to tradition argument.

    Being right in the past doesn't automatically make it right now, but it also doesn't make it wrong now, either.

    And appeal to fear fallacies still remain fallacies, in case you were wondering.
    Bzzt. Wrong again. If you're going to criticize me on issues of logic then you're going to have to up your game.

    Here is what she wrote:


    Nearly all of us are descendants of immigrants, immigrants who came here legally. I'm all for immigration. The more the merrier.



    Her argument makes a statement of fact and solely on the basis of that statement she arrives at her conclusion. I merely duplicated her thought process to highlight how ridiculous it was.

    What you class as appeal to fear is no such thing. Her conclusion is "the more the merrier." I'm simply accepting her at her word. The US with 308,000,000 needs a whole lot more people in order to make it a merrier place. OK then, what are the consequences which follow from both increased population density and increased population. She concludes that more people makes things merrier.

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Which do you favor....Americans by a 2-1 margin prefer border control over Amnesty

    Voters Put Border Control Ahead of Amnesty by 2-1 Margin - Rasmussen Reports™
    Border control and amnesty for illegal aliens are not mutually exclusive things.

    I want border control and deportation for terrorists and criminals but I want amnesty for those who abide the rest of our laws, are non-violent, and study to provide and contribute to our economy.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  9. #59
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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I dont think you have...but can you really not see that as a country that is precisely what we have done?
    The country as a whole has not done.Most businesses are honest enough to not hire illegals and most people are honest enough to not hire illegals. It is a handful of traitors that hire illegals and traitorous scum in office who try to circumvent the laws already in place to encourage illegal immigration.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Do you prefer Border Control or Amnesty for illegals

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The country as a whole has not done.Most businesses are honest enough to not hire illegals and most people are honest enough to not hire illegals. It is a handful of traitors that hire illegals and traitorous scum in office who try to circumvent the laws already in place to encourage illegal immigration.
    James...dude...Im on youre side on this issue. Really. I dont propose we make illegals citizen out of the typical mindless bleeding heart feel good "we have to for the sake of the children" type mindset. Your idea is simply not based in reality and when an argument isnt based in reality it is worthless. Politicians will not enact legislation or insist that existing legislation get enforced. It would not be politically expedient and politicians..both sides...are worried about votes and reelection. Strike one. Start pushing those buttons and you have massive lawsuits and in no time you have a case before the 9th cirtcuit court of appeals halting all deportation. Strike two. You create a racial divide in a nation with avery significant hispanic population. Strike three...next batter. You spend billions and billions that you dont have. Strike one. You completely abandon the responsibility the country bears for creating this situation. Strike two. You take away employment opportunities for people already working their ass off and living under the radar...and baby...they aint going home. You create an even GREATER potential for gang involvement, crime, etc. Strike three...next batter...we got a no hitter going here...

    Amnesty in and of itself isnt a working solution. Neither is building a fence. Without working together you have done nothing to change the environment that created the situation. And like it or not...the US is at least partially responsible for the mess we are in.

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