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Are the U.S. constitution and its amendments sacrosanct? Yes or No?

Are the U.S. constitution and its amendments sacrosanct? Yes or No?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 36.4%
  • No

    Votes: 14 63.6%

  • Total voters
    22

MusicAdventurer

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Are the U.S. constitution and its amendments sacrosanct and an accurate reflection of good ethics or is it a good piece of work that constantly needs to be altered? Is it good practice to sight part(s) of the constitution and its amendments as solid evidence for one's argument on an ethical position?
 
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Times change, and so should our Constitution. I find that Founding Fatherism is one of the sillier religions in our society; the dudes who wrote the Constitution were just some politicians. They had some good ideas, some awful ideas, and some ideas that may have been good at the time but simply didn't survive the test of time. It's strange that people can argue that their values were what made this country great, while at the same time lamenting that we don't follow their values.
 
Times change, and so should our Constitution. I find that Founding Fatherism is one of the sillier religions in our society; the dudes who wrote the Constitution were just some politicians. They had some good ideas, some awful ideas, and some ideas that may have been good at the time but simply didn't survive the test of time. It's strange that people can argue that their values were what made this country great, while at the same time lamenting that we don't follow their values.

My thoughts exactly .. I find it deplorable when people think that anything constitutional must be "right"
 
My thoughts exactly .. I find it deplorable when people think that anything constitutional must be "right"

I've said many times, "right" and "freedom" are two words Americans love to abuse.
 
The Constitution is a living document and so it is subject to interpretations, but there are some baseline interpretations that should not change. We know the true context, we know the intent behind it - so stop messing with it.

Frankly though, our government's expansion of power has gotten way out of control and the safe guards are not so effective anymore. Time for something new perhaps?
 
Our whole Existence today we owe to the brilliance of our Founders and if you study what it took for them to come to the decisions that lead to it's Ratification you will see that. To deny it it is to is yo open yourself and us up to the kind of tyranny that they and tens of thousands of others fought and died to avoid in the past 235 years.

No other form of Government has lasted as long or been able to come so far.


What Our Constitution has done is set the bar high and make our Nation the envy of the world.


People from every other Country have come here to get away from every other form of Government the ever existed and each one of those people save a few have contributed to the miracle that America became.


Today we are under the threat of tyranny once again as some Liberals are doing there best to circumvent the Constitution and ignore the laws well established to promote agendas that would lead to our ultimate demise if they go unchecked, and yes i am talking about Obama.


He is currently doing his best to ignore the law in order to stay in power and the sad thing is he is leading a bunch who are unable to see what is truly going on with his latest maneuver yo create Amnesty for people who have no right to be here in the first place.

He wants to reward them for cutting in line and cost us billions of dollars.


I hear people say what do you want to do pit them on busses and send them home?


No I want to cut odd all services to them punish those who would employ them as the law says we should and they will find their own way home.

Immigrants who followed the rules have become great Americans but today you can go to parts of California and if you don't speak a foreign language your out of luck. Those areas are being turned into the crap holes these people claimed to be escaping.

We don't need millions coming here to drag down our standard of living and we don't need Obama to pander to them so that he can turn thid Nation into the s+++ hole he told the world it is when he went on his apology tour of the world two years ago.
 
Our whole Existence today we owe to the brilliance of our Founders and if you study what it took for them to come to the decisions that lead to it's Ratification you will see that. To deny it it is to is yo open yourself and us up to the kind of tyranny that they and tens of thousands of others fought and died to avoid in the past 235 years.

No other form of Government has lasted as long or been able to come so far.


What Our Constitution has done is set the bar high and make our Nation the envy of the world.


People from every other Country have come here to get away from every other form of Government the ever existed and each one of those people save a few have contributed to the miracle that America became.


Today we are under the threat of tyranny once again as some Liberals are doing there best to circumvent the Constitution and ignore the laws well established to promote agendas that would lead to our ultimate demise if they go unchecked, and yes i am talking about Obama.


He is currently doing his best to ignore the law in order to stay in power and the sad thing is he is leading a bunch who are unable to see what is truly going on with his latest maneuver yo create Amnesty for people who have no right to be here in the first place.

He wants to reward them for cutting in line and cost us billions of dollars.


I hear people say what do you want to do pit them on busses and send them home?


No I want to cut odd all services to them punish those who would employ them as the law says we should and they will find their own way home.

Immigrants who followed the rules have become great Americans but today you can go to parts of California and if you don't speak a foreign language your out of luck. Those areas are being turned into the crap holes these people claimed to be escaping.

We don't need millions coming here to drag down our standard of living and we don't need Obama to pander to them so that he can turn thid Nation into the s+++ hole he told the world it is when he went on his apology tour of the world two years ago.

Other than the title, what does this post have to do with whether the constitution is sacrosanct? Which did you want to talk about, the instrument of the constitution, or how much you hate liberals and Obama?
 
There's plenty in the constitution that is unclear and up for interpretation. It's up to us to interpret it in the way that best benefits the country. So no, I don't believe the constitution is sacrosanct.
 
Our whole Existence today we owe to the brilliance of our Founders and if you study what it took for them to come to the decisions that lead to it's Ratification you will see that. To deny it it is to is yo open yourself and us up to the kind of tyranny that they and tens of thousands of others fought and died to avoid in the past 235 years.
No other form of Government has lasted as long or been able to come so far.
What Our Constitution has done is set the bar high and make our Nation the envy of the world.
People from every other Country have come here to get away from every other form of Government the ever existed and each one of those people save a few have contributed to the miracle that America became.
Today we are under the threat of tyranny once again as some Liberals are doing there best to circumvent the Constitution and ignore the laws well established to promote agendas that would lead to our ultimate demise if they go unchecked, and yes i am talking about Obama.
He is currently doing his best to ignore the law in order to stay in power and the sad thing is he is leading a bunch who are unable to see what is truly going on with his latest maneuver yo create Amnesty for people who have no right to be here in the first place.
He wants to reward them for cutting in line and cost us billions of dollars.
I hear people say what do you want to do pit them on busses and send them home?
No I want to cut odd all services to them punish those who would employ them as the law says we should and they will find their own way home.
Immigrants who followed the rules have become great Americans but today you can go to parts of California and if you don't speak a foreign language your out of luck. Those areas are being turned into the crap holes these people claimed to be escaping.
We don't need millions coming here to drag down our standard of living and we don't need Obama to pander to them so that he can turn thid Nation into the s+++ hole he told the world it is when he went on his apology tour of the world two years ago.

I doubt the Founding Fathers intended to be worshiped as Gods, yes they were certainly great men but damn this kind of twisted view of the world is really sick.

I'll give you an example, what happened to individual freedoms such as "Freedom of Speech" it seems pretty straight forward, but suddenly if I don't speak English I can't be an American? Or me and my neighbors can't live in the kind of community we want to? When did your love of this country shift from a focus on personal freedoms to one of universal conformity? I'll tell you what I think America should be about, and let's not forget that as an American my opinion on this matter means as much as yours, that America is about PERSONAL freedoms. The freedom to speak a language of my choice, although I personally agree for practical reasons the country needs an official language at the Federal level, and its my choice to live with the kind of people I want to and if me and a few hundred or thousand people from a similar culture background and start a community.

So what about America means more to you? Is it making everyone conform to YOUR idea of what America "is?" Where's the personal freedom in that? Or should we let people live how they want to live so long as they do the same?
 
Our whole Existence today we owe to the brilliance of our Founders and if you study what it took for them to come to the decisions that lead to it's Ratification you will see that. To deny it it is to is yo open yourself and us up to the kind of tyranny that they and tens of thousands of others fought and died to avoid in the past 235 years.

For someone who talks about how we should study, you don't seem to know that the Constitution was ratified only 224 years ago not 235. I mean it would seem to me that someone who had a basic knowledge as I'm sure you claim to at least have, would that taking 2011 and subtracting 1776, which gets you 235. So no at the very least no one before 1787 fought and died for a document which didn't exist yet, and if you really think Soldiers in the present or the future thinking of the Constitution while they fight and die, let me tell you thats far far far from reality and only exists in some romantic fantastical notion people like you seem to have.
 
Are the U.S. constitution and its amendments sacrosanct and an accurate reflection of good ethics or is it a good piece of work that constantly needs to be altered? Is it good practice to sight part(s) of the constitution and its amendments as solid evidence for one's argument on an ethical position?

The Constitution has built-in methods of change, so by definition it is not sacrosanct despite being a great piece of work.
 
I doubt the Founding Fathers intended to be worshiped as Gods, yes they were certainly great men but damn this kind of twisted view of the world is really sick.

I'll give you an example, what happened to individual freedoms such as "Freedom of Speech" it seems pretty straight forward, but suddenly if I don't speak English I can't be an American? Or me and my neighbors can't live in the kind of community we want to? When did your love of this country shift from a focus on personal freedoms to one of universal conformity? I'll tell you what I think America should be about, and let's not forget that as an American my opinion on this matter means as much as yours, that America is about PERSONAL freedoms. The freedom to speak a language of my choice, although I personally agree for practical reasons the country needs an official language at the Federal level, and its my choice to live with the kind of people I want to and if me and a few hundred or thousand people from a similar culture background and start a community.

So what about America means more to you? Is it making everyone conform to YOUR idea of what America "is?" Where's the personal freedom in that? Or should we let people live how they want to live so long as they do the same?

My role, as someone who understands ethics and large systems due to the underlying mathematics, is to see that there is minimal risk, in terms of both likelihood and worst-case scenario, of Americans harming one another by abusing the meaning of "right" or "freedom". I had a fun argument with a liberal the other day who was claiming there should be no restrictions on what Americans can buy. That fell under their interpretation of "freedom". With this allowing some suicidal rich man to go purchase 50 atomic bombs and then toss them where he wants, it is clear this interpretation allows the potential for harm beyond a reasonable threshold. For those who whine about freedom of choice, when you take my multiple-choice exams then I'll give you a free-response version of the problems so I don't hear "I don't see the answer I want to choose." I hope this demonstrates my point that there are times when freedom of choice is not necessarily the wise choice. Model theory is a branch of mathematics which reveals how different two interpretations of the same set of sentences can be. We must determine a set of sentences which both minimizes range of interpretation and is centered on the interpretation we want.
 
The Constitution has built-in methods of change, so by definition it is not sacrosanct despite being a great piece of work.

Actually, it is. Especially because of the built in method of change. What is sacrosanct is foundation of thought that created those documents. It is the culmination of 800 years of struggle for freedom and the very solid thought and philosophy that went before it and went into it. The founders did not come up with these documents off the top of their heads, it was a zenith of brilliant men and women throughout history that have contributed to the idea of personal freedom and self determination.

You can change the document all you want, but changes that digress from this centuries old struggle as well as the political historical constants evident in every previous system in every age, is a path to the very tyranny that it is designed to protect us from.

There's plenty in the constitution that is unclear and up for interpretation. It's up to us to interpret it in the way that best benefits the country. So no, I don't believe the constitution is sacrosanct.

If you think there is anything unclear about the constitution, I would suggest you are woefully ignorant of the men that created it and the 800 years of wisdom they drew from. If you stop only at reading the founding documents and know nothing of what led to them, then I suppose it would seem unclear on some points. In reality, it's not unclear at all. The only thing that was unclear when they were written was whether future generations would remain cognoscente of the history of tyranny and if they would retain the goal of righting the issues left unaddressed and close forever the loopholes to tyranny.

The founding documents were as much a statement about the historical character of man as it is protections against tyranny and protection of rights. In order to unite the colonies into a cohesive body capable of fighting together for a common cause, for the greater good, there were some frailties of man that would not be able to be addressed at that very crucial time, such as slavery, voting rights, etc. These issues had to be left out in order to form the union, as not everyone involved was a student of history, men's character or the Age of Reason... and they were left to future generations to educate the population and eradicate these evils to freedom and liberty.

Changing the constitution for any other reason is weakening it, not strengthening it.

For someone who talks about how we should study, you don't seem to know that the Constitution was ratified only 224 years ago not 235. I mean it would seem to me that someone who had a basic knowledge as I'm sure you claim to at least have, would that taking 2011 and subtracting 1776, which gets you 235. So no at the very least no one before 1787 fought and died for a document which didn't exist yet, and if you really think Soldiers in the present or the future thinking of the Constitution while they fight and die, let me tell you thats far far far from reality and only exists in some romantic fantastical notion people like you seem to have.

In one sense, he is right and you are wrong, in another sense, you are both wrong.

If you accept that the constitution was and is a work in progress, part of a well defined process then one must look at the entire context of the document. The first founding document was the Declaration of Independence, which lays the groundwork and builds the framework around which all other documents are drafted.

The Virginia Declaration of Rights was also written in 1776, though prior to the Declaration of Independence. This work would be heavily influential in every debate to follow, and it's influence can be seen first in the DOI.

The political thought and desire for freedom did not spring into existence between 1776 and 1787... in an unbroken line it extends back to June 15th, 1215... nearly 800 years ago with the signing of the Magna Carta.

To make sense of the constitution, to know it's clarity, there is no shortcut... not only must the thoughts and opinions of those that penned and debated these issues be known, but the school(s) of thought they studied and drew upon. And that my friends, draws back into the whole of human history and the many forms of tyranny man's weaknesses inevitably lead him to.

The constitution is sacrosanct, changes made to it were only meant to close the holes necessitated by compromise to form the union at all. They are NOT open to future interpretation... it is the PAST that must be understood and jealously guarded against.
 
Personally, I believe that the Constitution was NOT intended to be anywhere near as much of a "living" document as it is now seen. However, I would suggest that it does need to be slightly maleable in that the individuals who wrote it were somewhat naive in believing that they didn't have to include the Duties and Responsibilities of the Citizenry as much as the Rights and Priviliges thereof. It is unfortunate, but we need to go back and put in those things the Founders left out in order to correct a large number of our social and societal issues.
 
Are the U.S. constitution and its amendments sacrosanct? Yes or No?

Yes.But only until you go through an amendment process to repeal or alter an already existing amendments or to add new amendments. This the constitution is a living document is nothing more than horse **** invented by anti-American subhuman pieces of **** trying to subvert the constitution. If you call yourself an American and you call yourself patriotic then the only meaning of the constitution and its amendments that matters is the authors of the constitution and those that authored various amendments and that the only way those amendments should be changed is through the amendment process.
 
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Yes.But only until you go through an amendment process to repeal or alter an already existing amendments or to add new amendments. This the constitution is a living document is nothing more than horse **** invented by anti-American subhuman pieces of **** trying to subvert the constitution. If you call yourself an American and you call yourself patriotic then the only meaning of the constitution and its amendments that matters is the authors of the constitution and those that authored various amendments and that the only way those amendments should be changed is through the amendment process.

ever notice that those who are most interested in killing the constitution as it was originally written and intended are the ones who call it a "living"document?
 
ever notice that those who are most interested in killing the constitution as it was originally written and intended are the ones who call it a "living"document?

Which part of the Constitution gave you the right to spout opinions on the internet? Or cell phones? When BART shut off cell phone service in the stations, which part of the Constitution did they allegedly offend? '

The First Amendment would be a solid foundation, but you have to build out from what it says. It doesn't say "internet" or "cell phone" anywhere. If you don't change the interpretation to apply to new technologies and ideas, then it doesn't really apply anymore.

That said, I said yes. The ideas behind the founding of the Constitution put in place everything Americans profess to believe in. If you don't interpret the words themselves to apply to our current society, then it's just a philosophical document from 18th Century gentlemen farmers.
 
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Which part of the Constitution gave you the right to spout opinions on the internet? Or cell phones? When BART shut off cell phone service in the stations, which part of the Constitution did they allegedly offend? '

The First Amendment would be a solid foundation, but you have to build out from what it says. It doesn't say "internet" or "cell phone" anywhere. If you don't change the interpretation to apply to new technologies and ideas, then it doesn't really apply anymore.

nothing in the constitution GIVES me or anyone any rights. Those rights were presumed to PRE EXIST the constitution.
 
ever notice that those who are most interested in killing the constitution as it was originally written and intended are the ones who call it a "living"document?

How can you make this argument when there are parts of the Constitution that no one understands the meaning or purpose of even to this day :shrug:

If it's not a living document then it sure as hell is confusing and muddled - for it to be set it stone it needs to be more precise and specific, not wishy washy and permissible to alter and add onto.

The Code of Hamurabi makes more sense sometimes. It's unfaltering, chisseled, specific and precise. No muddled meanings, multiple interpretations. "Do this, don't do that" . . .there - no questions asked.

Obviously the founders didn't hve much concern over this because they intentionally left things open to interpretation - that's supposed to be the beauty of it.
 
nothing in the constitution GIVES me or anyone any rights. Those rights were presumed to PRE EXIST the constitution.

So your right to use the internet predates the internet?
 
nothing in the constitution GIVES me or anyone any rights. Those rights were presumed to PRE EXIST the constitution.

What it does is declare rights that one CAN have becaue the government wants them to - whether they pre-existed or not is purely subjected. Slaves came to have rights that - for them - did not pre-exst but for property owning rights they always did . . . same with women - etc.

:shrug:
 
Absolutely not and I think the founding fathers would be horrified to see how much they are worshiped by some people. They were just men, they had some good ideas. They were not perfect, if they were, we wouldn't have needed to amend the Constitution so many times already. There are certainly parts of the Constitution that need to be rewritten to clarify it, or even thrown out entirely and redone. The Constitution is a living document, it's not something to be bowed down to. It's idiotic to pretend otherwise.
 
nothing in the constitution GIVES me or anyone any rights. Those rights were presumed to PRE EXIST the constitution.

The founding fathers were wrong. Rights are granted by society, they don't just float around in the ether somewhere.
 
Absolutely not and I think the founding fathers would be horrified to see how much they are worshiped by some people. They were just men, they had some good ideas. They were not perfect, if they were, we wouldn't have needed to amend the Constitution so many times already. There are certainly parts of the Constitution that need to be rewritten to clarify it, or even thrown out entirely and redone. The Constitution is a living document, it's not something to be bowed down to. It's idiotic to pretend otherwise.

Mathematicians are as strict as they come in terms of emphasizing the need for clarity.
 
So your right to use the internet predates the internet?

essentially yes based on the premises of the founders. BTW there is nothing in the constitution where the people delegated their rights to the federal government on this issue either
 
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