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  • Yes they are, and should be prosecuted.

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Thread: Is this person distributing child pornography?

  1. #111
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    Re: Is this person distributing child pornography?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    "Mental health counselors"? Are you serious?
    This presumes that teenagers who do this kind of thing must somehow be abnormal or have some kind of psychological problem. This seems like pretty normal behavior from teenagers to me. They're going to do foolish things because they're horny. Not much can be done to change that.



    Why make their life worse by staining their record with a criminal conviction? Isn't the whole point of this law supposed to be to protect them? If we, as a society, are concerned for their welfare, then we would be wise to avoid imposing punishments that are far worse than the self-inflicted harm. And if we aren't concerned for their welfare, well, then who cares what they do anyway as long as they aren't harming others.
    Yes. I'm serious. Being a horny teenager doesn't mean being a complete moron.

    The OP doesn't specify an age, but we'll go with teens. They know when they're up to something they shouldn't be. That's why they excel at sneaking. If they post porn and get caught, they will have to answer.

    Keep in mind also my other point. Such teens may be making themselves targets of child pornographers, to be expoited. I'm sorry, but I cannot agree this is pretty normal behavior.

    Anyone in possession of the photo, wary or not is also at legal risk. Suppose your teen daughter is using your phone, and a teenage boyfriend of hers sends her a pic of himself. That pic is now on your phone and YOU are now in possession of child porn. Good luck.

    I'm not an attorney but juvie records can be sealed. It's not necessarily a lifetime tag, but a kid who does this is risking legal trouble. Any judge will order counselling for sexual behavior.

  2. #112
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    Re: Is this person distributing child pornography?

    Here are a few things that 16-year-olds can do in this country:

    - Operate the most dangerous item that is commonly owned (i.e. the automobile)
    - Be tried as an adult for crimes they commit
    - Drop out of school
    - Refuse lifesaving medical treatment on religious grounds
    - Get married with parental consent (in most states)
    - Consent to sex with an adult (in most states)

    In light of the myriad of ways in which teenagers can hurt themselves with the government's blessing, putting some nudies of themselves online isn't really at the top of the list of things that I'm going to worry about. I'll file that under #FirstWorldProblems #WhiteGirlProblems.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-21-11 at 04:25 AM.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Is this person distributing child pornography?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The harm occurs when child pornography is produced, because it involves an adult exploiting a minor (which obviously doesn't happen when a minor uploads the images themselves).
    Then why is it illegal to trade it, since it's already been produced?

    This argument could be taken to mean that you have no problem with child porn, as long as children produce it... let minors upload videos of themselves having sex with other minors, and then pedophiles can take those videos and photos and trade them.

    And btw... children can molest other children. If children produce things like that, and trade it.. is that ok? Because that doesn't involve an adult in the production of the photos and videos.

    The reason that POSSESSION is illegal is because it theoretically creates a market for child pornography, encouraging its production and therefore resulting in more exploitation of minors by adults. So like I said, if some pervert wants to get their rocks off to a photo that some teenager uploaded to the web, I couldn't care less. It's none of my business what people are into, and no one was harmed. I think the law has more important things to worry about, like minors actually being exploited.
    So what are you saying exactly... you could careless about pedophiles jacking off, period?

    Or you just don't care if they jack off to the kid in the scenario? It doesn't affect you, unless you're the kid in the video, or you're the parent of that child. The kid in the scenario was Kim Kardashian and it affects her current life. A pedophile jacking off to another pedophile molesting a child, doesn't affect you or me either.

  4. #114
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    Re: Is this person distributing child pornography?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Then why is it illegal to trade it, since it's already been produced?
    Because it (theoretically) creates a market for child pornography, which means that more of it will be produced and therefore more children will be harmed.

    This argument could be taken to mean that you have no problem with child porn, as long as children produce it... let minors upload videos of themselves having sex with other minors, and then pedophiles can take those videos and photos and trade them.
    Well then you're getting into the logistical problem of how you figure out if there was an adult involved in the production.

    And btw... children can molest other children. If children produce things like that, and trade it.. is that ok? Because that doesn't involve an adult in the production of the photos and videos.
    No, the purpose of the laws is to protect minor from harm...that includes harm from other minors.

    So what are you saying exactly... you could careless about pedophiles jacking off, period?
    Correct. It's none of my business what someone's sexual preferences are, as long as they aren't harming anyone. The purpose of the laws should be to protect minors, not to prevent people from jacking off just because they're creepy.

    Anyway, I don't see what this has to do with the subject of the thread, which is whether or not the so-called "victim" should be punished by the law for uploading the image in the first place.

    Or you just don't care if they jack off to the kid in the scenario? It doesn't affect you, unless you're the kid in the video, or you're the parent of that child. The kid in the scenario was Kim Kardashian and it affects her current life. A pedophile jacking off to another pedophile molesting a child, doesn't affect you or me either.
    If it's an actual child being molested, then it should be illegal because it encourages the production of MORE child pornography. But if it's just some teenager who uploaded the image herself? Meh. I'm more concerned about ACTUAL exploitation than I am about some pervert jacking off to an image that some teenager uploaded of her own accord. It affects Kim Kardashian's current life? Sucks for her; people do dumb things when they're teenagers and the consequences often extend into adulthood (see post #112). How exactly would the intervention of the criminal justice system have improved her life?

    Oh I forgot, that's not the purpose of the law anyway...the law must be enforced at all costs regardless of whether it improves the "victim's" life.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-21-11 at 04:20 PM.
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  5. #115
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    Re: Is this person distributing child pornography?

    Kandahar, you don't make any sense.

    This is what I am hearing...

    Pedophiles jacking off to child porn is acceptable, but producing child porn should be illegal.

    Directly answer the question, should possessing and distributing child porn be illegal or not? You keep turning child porn into an issue of production and dancing around. Then you appear to make the argument that it's ok for children to produce and manage videos and photos themselves, while pedophiles jack of to it.

    So just answer the questions, and quit dancing around already.

    Should it be illegal to possess child porn?

    Should it be illegal to distribute child porn?

  6. #116
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    Re: Is this person distributing child pornography?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well then you're getting into the logistical problem of how you figure out if there was an adult involved in the production.
    The purpose of the laws should be to protect minors, not to prevent people from jacking off just because they're creepy.
    So what now... it's ok for an adult to distribute and trade child porn, but it's not ok for an adult to produce it?



    If it's an actual child being molested, then it should be illegal because it encourages the production of MORE child pornography. But if it's just some teenager who uploaded the image herself? Meh. I'm more concerned about ACTUAL exploitation than I am about some pervert jacking off to an image that some teenager uploaded of her own accord. It affects Kim Kardashian's current life? Sucks for her; people do dumb things when they're teenagers and the consequences often extend into adulthood (see post #112). How exactly would the intervention of the criminal justice system have improved her life?
    This is where you're entire argument has gone... Nobody is being harmed, it doesn't affect me. Oh, it affects other people like Kim Kardshian, well, she doesn't count. It still doesn't affect me.

    You're arguments are... they're, just, really bad.

    Oh I forgot, that's not the purpose of the law anyway...the law must be enforced at all costs regardless of whether it improves the "victim's" life.
    There are two sides to this debate.

    1. Is this child porn under the definition of child porn?
    2. If so, should it be considered a criminal offense?

    I am arguing, yes on one, and no on two.

    You seem to be arguing no and no.

    The current law says yes on one, and sometimes yes on two...

    The law has to be consistent. If a child uploads a nude photo that meets the definition of child porn, then it is. If a pedophile has it on their computer, along with other child porn, it's considered child porn. The law doesn't consider weather or not a child or minor produced that photo or video themselves. If an adult has it and is jacking off to it, then that adult is in trouble for possession of child porn, not jacking off.

    The law has to consistent. There is no other way. There is no way the law could function the way you want it to.

  7. #117
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    Re: Is this person distributing child pornography?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    So just answer the questions, and quit dancing around already.

    Should it be illegal to possess child porn?
    Of course, as it encourages the production of more of it which will cause more children to be harmed by adults.

    Should it be illegal to distribute child porn?
    If we're talking about adults distributing images of children being raped, then of course it should be illegal. If you're using "child porn" as an emotionally-charged way (whether legally correct or not) to describe a 17-year-old posting nude images of him/herself online, then I really don't care about it.
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  8. #118
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    Re: Is this person distributing child pornography?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    This is where you're entire argument has gone... Nobody is being harmed, it doesn't affect me. Oh, it affects other people like Kim Kardshian, well, she doesn't count. It still doesn't affect me.
    I'm saying that the level of harm caused by a teenager posting nudies of themselves online doesn't rise to a level that calls for the criminal justice system to get involved. Especially given the myriad of other ways that teenagers can harm themselves legally.

    There are two sides to this debate.

    1. Is this child porn under the definition of child porn?
    2. If so, should it be considered a criminal offense?

    I am arguing, yes on one, and no on two.

    You seem to be arguing no and no.
    I am arguing no on #2, and "I don't care" on #1 because it's irrelevant if the answer to #2 is no.

    The current law says yes on one, and sometimes yes on two...
    Well that is the subject of the thread...

    The law has to be consistent. If a child uploads a nude photo that meets the definition of child porn, then it is. If a pedophile has it on their computer, along with other child porn, it's considered child porn. The law doesn't consider weather or not a child or minor produced that photo or video themselves. If an adult has it and is jacking off to it, then that adult is in trouble for possession of child porn, not jacking off.
    That's mainly because the courts don't want to deal with the hassle of trying to determine who produced it, not because videos that the minors posted themselves are inherently exploitative. I don't buy the argument that someone can be harmed merely by someone else jacking off to them.

    The law has to consistent. There is no other way. There is no way the law could function the way you want it to.
    If I was a district attorney and someone was arrested for having nude pictures of a 17-year-old that the minor uploaded themselves, I doubt I'd give a ****. I certainly wouldn't regard them as a monster who wanted to rape little kids. I'd probably just tell them that they were playing with fire and they should knock it off. The law does NOT need to be consistent; that argument is exactly why common sense is routinely abandoned in our criminal justice system.

    But anyway, the topic of this thread is what should happen to the minor him/herself, not other people who possess the images.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-21-11 at 06:04 PM.
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  9. #119
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    Re: Is this person distributing child pornography?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    This came up in another thread, but I felt it warrants it's own discussion.

    The scenario is a minor, takes naked/sexual pictures of themselves, and posts it on the internet. Now my question is, are they distributing child pornography, and if so, should they be prosecuted like any other child pornographer?

    Thoughts?

    No, this is called "teenagers being stupid".

    Prosecuting a teenager for their own pics, is like putting a child in prison for child-abuse for falling off a bike.


    With that said, I think it is kinda idiotic to treat the sexuality of a 14-17yo in the same manner as the sexual abuse of younger children... legality schmegality, once a minor is past puberty consent is at least partly relevant.

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  10. #120
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    Re: Is this person distributing child pornography?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Of course, as it encourages the production of more of it which will cause more children to be harmed by adults.



    If we're talking about adults distributing images of children being raped, then of course it should be illegal. If you're using "child porn" as an emotionally-charged way (whether legally correct or not) to describe a 17-year-old posting nude images of him/herself online, then I really don't care about it.
    The legal definition of child porn includes images of 17 year old posting nude photos of themselves... unless the minor has parents permission and his posing nude for artistic photos that involve nudity, it's not protected as freedom of speech by the constitution.

    Your problem is, you think the definition of child porn should be changed... If 17 is ok, then is 16, 15, and 14 ok too? Minors can not be in porn movies, and they can't pose naked for playboy, therefore it isn't legal to trade nude photos of minors. That is simply the law.

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