View Poll Results: Does evolution happen

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  • Evolution happens, and it is random

    65 71.43%
  • Evolution happens and is guided by a higher power

    10 10.99%
  • There is not enough information to know for sure

    7 7.69%
  • No, evolutuon does not happen

    5 5.49%
  • I don't know

    4 4.40%
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Thread: Evolution

  1. #71
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Sure, but you made a pretty general statement that encompassed everything, even though it was said in the context of evolution. Clarification was something I felt necessary due to that general nature.
    okee dokee.

    but yes, it would be soooo cool if we could find a way to watch events on Earth millions of years ago, through telescopes on Earth.

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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Further, evolution would have us believe that once a species changes, the older version is lost. Chimps, apes, monkey and all the other primates are still there.
    this is 100% untrue and appears to be an intentional falsehood spread by Creationists.

    just because one monkey began the long-line towards humanity doesn't mean the other monkeys were't perfectly well-fit for their environment.

    evolution starts in individuals. one individual of a species having an advantage does NOT mean all the other monkeys will die out.

    this is either dishonesty or an utter lack of understanding of Evolution.

  3. #73
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I know. Watching galaxies form that happened before there even was a planet Earth blows me away.
    When I was still majoring in physics, quasar observation through gravitational lenses was my main area of interest (even though I hadn't really gotten that far in my formal studies before switching majors, I spent countless hours researching that stuff on my own time, proving that I am the ultra-nerd!).

  4. #74
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    but yes, it would be soooo cool if we could find a way to watch events on Earth millions of years ago, through telescopes on Earth.
    With quantum physics, that might actually be possible.

  5. #75
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    When I was still majoring in physics, quasar observation through gravitational lenses was my main area of interest (even though I hadn't really gotten that far in my formal studies before switching majors, I spent countless hours researching that stuff on my own time, proving that I am the ultra-nerd!).
    Tashah showed me a couple ultra cool images from gravitational lenses.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  6. #76
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    Re: Evolution

    Originally Posted by Tucker Case

    When I was still majoring in physics, quasar observation through gravitational lenses was my main area of interest (even though I hadn't really gotten that far in my formal studies before switching majors, I spent countless hours researching that stuff on my own time, proving that I am the ultra-nerd!).


    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Tashah showed me a couple ultra cool images from gravitational lenses.

    I just had to go look those up, COOL!
    Last edited by winston53660; 08-19-11 at 12:24 AM.

  7. #77
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    No it is not. It is evidence that humans have changed over time. Further, evolution would have us believe that once a species changes, the older version is lost. Chimps, apes, monkey and all the other primates are still there.
    You have no idea what you are talking about. Evolution does not claim that older species are lost when newer ones evolve. Geographic isolation is a common mechanism of evolution that retains the older species while also creating an offshoot.

  8. #78
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    but that is why the giant squid's case is intriguing... Squids are a mollusk and a invertebrate that have only connections with mammals form the most primitive of species. The giant squid lives in extremely deep water, and have developed eyes very similar to a mammals, with balls and eye-sockets even though they come from completely different lines in completely different circumstances, no other invertebrate species have such complex eyes. This may suggest that some evolutionary forms are more prevalent to exist then others, due to scientifically inconclusive reasons... but obviously just because it is not yet able to be explained right now, doesn't mean it won't... and there are a lot of strange tendency's that could happen strictly because of the gravity our planet is at and that we are carbon based.
    This is not limited to Squids, other Cephalopods have similar eyes. You can see a primitive form of cephalopod eye development in the Nautilus, its eye is basically a pin hole camera, and is similar to other cephalopod eyes, just not as developed. Regardless, there are differences between cephalopod eyes and invertebrate eyes, such as Cephalopods do not have a cornea, and they do not have rods and cones. but rather structures unique to them that serve a similar purpose. This is an example of convergent evolution, just as a bats wing and a birds wing are very similar because they serve the same function.

    Just because the function of the eye develops in one lineage, this does not mean that a similar structure could not arise elsewhere. This is especially true when the gene9s) that controls eye formation and structures is shared by creatures as diverse as humans, fruit flies, and cephalopods (notably Pax-6 - discovered quite early on in the advent of genetic research in fruit flies).A separate yet convergent development is also supported when you look at the embryonic development of a cephalopod eye versus a vertebrate eye. The genes that control the development of the eyes for both cephalopods and invertebrates seems to have come from a basal ancestor to both invertebrates and mollusks (a cephalopod, and consequently a squid are both mollusks).

    To trace the evolutionary changes that are potentially responsible for camera eye formation, we also compared octopus-eye ESTs with the completed genome sequences of other organisms. We found that 1019 out of the 1052 genes had already existed at the common ancestor of bilateria, and 875 genes were conserved between humans and octopuses. It suggests that a larger number of conserved genes and their similar gene expression may be responsible for the convergent evolution of the camera eye.

    Same genes, with the same basic blueprint inherited from an ancestral lineage that are then expressed in a very similar fashion, although there are enough differences to point that they developed completely separate from each other.

    From the same paper:
    Although the morphology of the ancestral eye cannot be inferred from this study, we were able to provide strong support for the hypothesis that these genes having had an important role in the function of camera eyes in both humans and octopuses were present in the last common ancestor of these two lineages. Taking this observation into account, we can reasonably contend that the convergent evolution of camera eyes is caused by the already-abundant presence of the commonly shared genes as the ancestral gene set and the remarkable similarity of expression profiles of their derived genes
    Comparative Analysis of Gene Expression for Convergent Evolution of Camera Eye Between Octopus and Human

    So in summation.. we do not know the specifics, but there are shared genes that controls the development of the eye in the separate lineages, and they stem from a common ancestor - but here I am quoting from the paper, I will let it provide the summation:

    Our results indicate that most of the genes, including several gene pathways necessary for the evolution of the camera eye, might be shared between human and octopus lineages. Therefore, there is strong evidence that the evolutionary mechanisms for the camera eyes of humans and octopuses are subjected to similar gene expression profiles of the commonly conserved gene set, although the developmental processes of the human and octopus eyes are a bit different.
    Thanks for leading me to some fascinating information Celticwar. I am likely to spend some time over the next couple of days delving deeper into this, it touches on an area I have more than a passing interest in (not specifically cephalopods, I have had limited exposure to them and have not studied them all that much, but rather many of their marine invertebrate cousins). - This is not a damnation of evolution in the slightest however.

    edit.. somehow this got chopped - a picture to show how dissimilar embryonic eye development is between cephalopods and vertebrates:

    Last edited by marduc; 08-19-11 at 12:40 AM.
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  9. #79
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    Re: Evolution

    Speaking of evolution any one hear about this?

    Fall From Grace
    August 15, 2011

    Readers of The Banner, the publication of the Christian Reformed Church in North America, reacted instantly to the news in January that two religion professors at Calvin College had written scholarly papers suggesting that evidence of genetics and evolution raised questions about the traditional, literal reading of Genesis about creation, the story of Adam and Eve, and the fall of humanity out of an initial idyllic state.

    News: Fall From Grace - Inside Higher Ed

  10. #80
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Do you believe evolution happened and is happening? Do you think a higher power guides evolution or is it random?
    It is a very sad there is a need for a poll on this question. I am curious if Rick Perry was the impetus for this discussion, since he has stated he doesn't believe in evolution?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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