View Poll Results: Does evolution happen

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  • Evolution happens, and it is random

    65 71.43%
  • Evolution happens and is guided by a higher power

    10 10.99%
  • There is not enough information to know for sure

    7 7.69%
  • No, evolutuon does not happen

    5 5.49%
  • I don't know

    4 4.40%
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Thread: Evolution

  1. #41
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    We could also get into how carbon dating is bogus and about tests that have shown carbon dating exaggerates the age of rocks and other geological formations. But that might cause the atheists to explode
    You know, carbon isn't the only radioactive element (isotope) out there which can be measured to date things such as rocks. It is in fact NOT how rocks are dated.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  2. #42
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    This is wrong. The overall classical behavior of gravity is well known. Under no circumstance will you ever drop an apple and under the force of gravity alone be repelled. We understand that like mass attracts much like like charges repel. Electricity and magnetism is well known, proven from first principle and have quantum models as well. We understand a lot about the other fundamental forces, including the bosons which transmit the force. What makes gravity unique isn't that we don't know that like masses attract; it's far more fundamental than a derived equation. We don't really understand HOW gravity is transmitted. It's postulated to be through exchange of virtual "gravitons", it's why people spend so much time looking for the Higgs boson. Gravity has no quantum model, we don't really understand how it works. There's no negative mass (that we know of), even though everything else has a negative to it (physicists LOVE symmetry). It's not to say that we can't make observations, and in a classical sense understand the FUNCTION of gravity very well. For we can. We have equations and models which can accurately predict gravitational force. It's how we can do any space exploration at all. Classically it is a well understood theory. It remains a theory because there is still much we do not know about it. But you will never drop and apple and have it float away under only the force of gravity. Less you have a negative mass apple, which would be cool.
    Of course we can say that an apple will always fall straight to the ground .. until it doesn't of course.

    This is a very sophisticated argument and is more a way of studying the philosophy of science than trying to prove that an apple may not fall to the ground .. I think you missed that point.

    I would never place my money on an apple not falling to the ground .. yet I know that we can never truly "know" something.

    Ask any scientist and they will agree with this. This is a sophisticated way of saying that some things are essentially "facts", while still holding the scientific reverence of "until they are disproven" .. make sense?
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 08-18-11 at 10:08 PM.

  3. #43
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    You will never drop an apple and have it not fall straight to the ground .. until it does of course.

    This is a very sophisticated argument and is more a way of studying the philosophy of science than trying to prove that an apple may not fall to the ground .. I think you missed that point.

    I would never place my money on an apple not falling to the ground .. yet I know that we can never truly "know" something.

    Ask any scientist and they will agree with this. This is a sophisticated way of saying that some things are essentially "facts", while still holding the scientific reverence of "until they are disproven" .. make sense?
    I AM a scientist. What is and what isn't knowledge can always be argued. But a voltmeter is a voltmeter and it measures. Measurement defines reality. It is a measured fact that like masses attract.
    Last edited by Ikari; 08-18-11 at 10:15 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #44
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I posted an image of the fossil of a walking whale in this very thread.
    Do we need to go into how initial thoughts on how fossils go together are often way off?

    Did you know there is no such thing as a Brontosaurus?
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  5. #45
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I AM a scientist. I DO NOT agree with you.
    As am I .. clearly we were taught differently .. I encourage you to actually attempt to understand the point I am making. Its actually quite profound and enlightening.

  6. #46
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    As am I .. clearly we were taught differently .. I encourage you to actually attempt to understand the point I am making. Its actually quite profound and enlightening.
    Not quite so much as you would think. There is quite a bit of useful philosophy, but there is also a good deal of pointless. Gravity is measured. To change it you have to measure something counter to it. There is much left unknown about gravity, but we do know that like masses attract. Studied gravity for centuries. The classical physics of gravity is well understood.
    Last edited by Ikari; 08-18-11 at 10:14 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #47
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Some structures work better than others .. however, one has to remember that organisms only can change from what it already has. If an eye in the traditional sense is not feasible from the organism's current structure or if the environment is one any sunlight to speak of, there is less of a chance that it will evolve that way.
    but that is why the giant squid's case is intriguing... Squids are a mollusk and a invertebrate that have only connections with mammals form the most primitive of species. The giant squid lives in extremely deep water, and have developed eyes very similar to a mammals, with balls and eye-sockets even though they come from completely different lines in completely different circumstances, no other invertebrate species have such complex eyes. This may suggest that some evolutionary forms are more prevalent to exist then others, due to scientifically inconclusive reasons... but obviously just because it is not yet able to be explained right now, doesn't mean it won't... and there are a lot of strange tendency's that could happen strictly because of the gravity our planet is at and that we are carbon based.

  8. #48
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You know, carbon isn't the only radioactive element (isotope) out there which can be measured to date things such as rocks. It is in fact NOT how rocks are dated.
    I just used that as a general term to talk about all the dating methods. There have been numerous lava flows that created rocks in known history that have been tested by the many various dating methods. All came up way off. One flow was 50 years old and the various methods showed the rocks formed by the flow to be anywhere from 500,000 to millions of years old. It just isn't accurate.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  9. #49
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not quite so much as you would think. There is quite a bit of useful philosophy, but there is also a good deal of pointless. Gravity is measured. To change it you have to measure something counter to it. There is much left unknown about gravity, but we do know that like masses attract. Studied gravity for centuries. The classical physics of gravity is well understood.
    Agreed .. gravity is "well understood". Simply because a way of thinking, specifically empiricism, seems pointless, does not make it inaccurate.

  10. #50
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post


    Actually there has been evidence of micro-evolution
    I have only every heard of bacteria. But could you please post a source, cause then i am not up to date on my biology... which is true... im a physics guy after all.

    And what i mean by concrete evidence, is that were scientist able to specifically make or observe and wild animal "evolve" (LOL not like Pokemon, but like witness a new species begin to develop from a local species? Were they able to find the environmental changes in why this took place?or breed a new animal species?)

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