Last edited by VanceMack; 08-29-11 at 04:34 PM.
It's understood when someone posts these polls.
We have already "learned more".My opinion is that of course evolution occurs. I have a fairly decent understanding of natural selection and the process we call micro-evolution. Macro...Im still a little fuzzy with. Sorry...with a solid inderstanding of DNA I would really love to understand how genetically we change based on environmental needs, and not just in a single incident but enough across a species at the same time to allow for continuance of a species. I'd love to learn more. I assume that in time we will in fact learn more and wont at all be surprised when much of what we promote today as being known is in fact demonstrated to be completely wrong. I dont get all arrogant mother ****er superior about people with a pure science faith system like some pricks do. I dont laugh derisively at people with a God based belief system. Truth be told? I dont know. Im OK with that.
It's a matter of acceptance for people for many reasons- usually religious.
People will accept that things like Mountains rose over a 50 million year stretch because of geologic evidence even tho it is way beyond their/human lifespan. Unwitnessed.
But because of religious beliefs/Indoctrination will not accept Evolution despite similar Geologic evidence. Such as shell fossils at every elevation/top- of a mountain.
There are Intermediate species/fossils for Every extant specie, Including Us, indeed intermediate species for extinct ones as well.
Surely "God", "is perfect"/"Created us perfect" didn't need all that practice. At least according to the Bible.
ie, See the skull charts posted earlier in the string.
Everything we have learned is on evolution's side- every new science Confirms evolution.
When Isotopic dating, (Carbon14 the best known), was discovered in the 1940's.. that could have killed it.
It confirmed of course.
As has DNA/DNA regression analysis.
All it would have taken in 150 years is to find any of the Millions of fossils that have been found around the globe in the wrong Strata/age-- and blooey.
But They never will find Human fossils in the Belly of Dinosaur ones or in the same strata.
We ALREADY Know this.
You really don't look forward to learning as you claim, as you do not accept what we already know.
Rather, as quoted just below, make a mockery of reason/Shoot the messenger.
Again, this is Utterly Fallacious and doesn't dent in the least 150 years and Mountain.. RANGES... of evidence.Oh...bytheway, you failed to mention the 34% that 'fudged' data that might disagree with them, the 14% that knew of others that had fabricated data, and the 72% who knew of people that engaged in questionable research tactics. And see...this is the part where after an individual is challenged to offer evidence and does so, you either rebut the evidence or simply say 'touche'! I never said all of science was flawed. I have worked with enough researchers to know how and why the game is played.
Your sentiments are clear, despite your denial.
And your scientist bashing, not only laughable 'logic', but wanton desperation.
Last edited by mbig; 08-29-11 at 07:44 PM.
I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
Glad we've finally got a concrete answer.
One question. As for those percentages that fudged evidence and the like. Were their errors discovered in peer review? To me this is much more important than the credibility of an individual scientist. I would think that the system of peer review would catch a lot of those fabrications and ensure that only theories that are accurately supported by evidence would enter general knowledge.
Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.
Truth does come out. It may just take a while. For instance, reviewers are now raking Stephen Jay Gould over the coals for a lot of his faulty scholarship in his science popularizations. He smeared men and ruined their reputations and wouldn't you know, he was the one that was stretching the truth or outright fabricating it, not the people he accused. Truth eventually wins because there is no time limit on truth.
I'll accept that you support the scientific method, and aren't really claiming that the scientific community intentional attempts to deceive the public for their own ends. But it damn sure sounded like you were making that claim. And I certainly don't want anyone reading this thread to get the wrong impression.
Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.
261- In a response to Scourge and his use of the word “willful deception” I stated Willful deception is commonly practiced. Even by those science minded folks. People frequently research things not to find the 'truth' but with the specific intent to prove a hypothesis. Mans gotta publish...right?
You of course jumped in with
262-Are you suggesting that scientists fabricate results? The only way to prove a hypothesis is to find supporting evidence. Unless the evidence is false, then your premise is faulty. Go ahead, accuse the scientific community of just being a bunch of liars.
To which I replied in 264
ALL of the scientific community? No...of course not. Some? Helz yes.
Of course, scourge, like you, lost all objectivity and made ‘some’ mean all and declared I was indicting ALL of science which of course was an idiotic thing to say because I in no way impunded ALL of science and affirmed that fact
282-Again...where am I suggesting all or even most of the evolutionary scientists are frauds? I think most are doing what they do...postulating, researching, postulating some more.
Ah…but not to be outdone in the arena of idiocy, you jump right back with
265-So... you think that they're earnest... but wrong? By all means publish some evidence that contradicts the established theories.
In 289 I repeated what I had been saying. For some moronic reason you decided to take up the shield of defense for science when in fact I wasn’t ATTACKING science, merely pointing out it is not pristine.
“SOME researchers deliberately create flawed theory and offer fabricated evidence to support it. Some studies are legit...let the chips fall where they may. Some are guided to produce a deliberate result. Its the nature of science, research, people. In order to get fundingyou have to be able to show 'results'. There isnt a "Journal of Huh...That didnt at ALL Look Like What we Initially Thought it Did" although it would be kinda cool if there was.
Can I interest you in a piece of cloning research from famed South Korean scientist Hwang Woo-suk?
Not all. Definitely some.”
Then…just for fun I threw in a survey BY scientists ABOUT scientists and the potential for flawed data to demonstrate what I had been talking about. It was pretty compelling stuff…right? I mean…2% of survey participants admitting to fraud, up to 34% admitted to other questionable research practices, 14% knew someone who had fabricated, falsified or altered data (which kinda puts a lie to the 2% that actually admit to it…but hey…who wants to admit to being part of that 14%) and up to 72% knew someone who had committed other questionable research practices.
That’s all I had ever suggested. Not that science was improper or incorrect. Not that science should be discounted because some (and apparently a LOT) scientists skew their research data (side note-anyone that has worked in a university setting already understand this to be common). Not that evolution was wrong…hell…twice before I had affirmed my knowledge of and acceptance of micro-evolution as we know it today.
Should be clear to anyone…but…not to the idiot triplets now joined by BMAC who not only completely glossed over a study of scientific integrity by a group of scientists but then went on to do this head spinning rant about how I was a liar for stating I even believed in any type of evolution and that I was really a god worshipping candle burning tie your children down and sacrifice them at the altar creationist.
Which proves one thing…you people lose your ****ing MINDS when someone dares to challenge your faith base. And people think religious types are bad…
I didn't vote for any of them because evolution does happen, but it's neither random nor guided by a spiritual power. It's guided by DNA mutation and natural selection.