View Poll Results: Does evolution happen

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  • Evolution happens, and it is random

    65 71.43%
  • Evolution happens and is guided by a higher power

    10 10.99%
  • There is not enough information to know for sure

    7 7.69%
  • No, evolutuon does not happen

    5 5.49%
  • I don't know

    4 4.40%
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Thread: Evolution

  1. #291
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    random, unguided evolution did not create your cute little poodle. so how did it happen??? intelligent design
    Maybe not-so-intelligent design.

  2. #292
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    piltdown man anyone?
    Im just sayin...

    Its funny what some of the folks on this site do. They have this kneejerk need to rush to defend all instead of just allowing that SOME doesnt equal all. It happened with medicare fraud...uh UH! There may be a few but not THOUSANDS!!! OK...really? Mental Health Fraud...NO WAY! People wouldnt DO that! Uh...OK. Corrupt scientists...BULL****!!! NEVER!!! Really? Why...the field of science has some sort of purity test that ensures no one of questionable integrity can ever be a scientist? Dood...its...PEOPLE. People are flawed. NOT ALL...not even most...but some? Sure...you bet.

  3. #293
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You dont just keep changing the bar, you create some new starting point and want to say 'go'. Im not even sure what you are arguing. SOME researchers deliberately create flawed theory and offer fabricated evidence to support it. Some studies are legit...let the chips fall where they may. Some are guided to produce a deliberate result. Its the nature of science, research, people. In order to get fundingyou have to be able to show 'results'. There isnt a "Journal of Huh...That didnt at ALL Look Like What we Initially Thought it Did" although it would be kinda cool if there was.

    Can I interest you in a piece of cloning research from famed South Korean scientist Hwang Woo-suk?

    Not all. Definitely some.
    I'm attempting to get you to actually say that you think the body of research that suggests evolution is false. But you won't commit to that. You just say that some scientists lie, while refusing the implications of that statement. Okay, which ones? Do you have proof for any individual theory being a deliberate fabrication, or do you just not trust smart people? You're using this notion that scientists lie to discredit their findings. But you're not making the connections yourself. Find some evidence and prove it false. Go ahead. Until you do the legwork, you don't get to call anyone else a liar.

    Your position is that some scientists lie. I wouldn't doubt it. Everybody lies. But what I will doubt is that those lies go undiscovered. And there is certainly no concentrated effort to suppress the truth. You keep implying that such an effort exists. And you suggest that scientists are immoral people who lie in order to get paid. But what you keep refusing to say aloud is that you think enough scientists do this to affect the results that the scientific community puts forth. Until you actually say that, without equivocating, and show some evidence to back that claim up, you're just blowing hot air.

    And based on your comment about "moving goalposts", I can only conclude that you either don't understand why what you're saying is complete and utter nonsense, or that you know it's bunk just as much as I do. You keep trying to implant the idea that scientists are all liars or incompetent without actually saying it. Either put up or shut up.
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  4. #294
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I'm attempting to get you to actually say that you think the body of research that suggests evolution is false. But you won't commit to that. You just say that some scientists lie, while refusing the implications of that statement. Okay, which ones? Do you have proof for any individual theory being a deliberate fabrication, or do you just not trust smart people? You're using this notion that scientists lie to discredit their findings. But you're not making the connections yourself. Find some evidence and prove it false. Go ahead. Until you do the legwork, you don't get to call anyone else a liar.

    Your position is that some scientists lie. I wouldn't doubt it. Everybody lies. But what I will doubt is that those lies go undiscovered. And there is certainly no concentrated effort to suppress the truth. You keep implying that such an effort exists. And you suggest that scientists are immoral people who lie in order to get paid. But what you keep refusing to say aloud is that you think enough scientists do this to affect the results that the scientific community puts forth. Until you actually say that, without equivocating, and show some evidence to back that claim up, you're just blowing hot air.

    And based on your comment about "moving goalposts", I can only conclude that you either don't understand why what you're saying is complete and utter nonsense, or that you know it's bunk just as much as I do. You keep trying to implant the idea that scientists are all liars or incompetent without actually saying it. Either put up or shut up.
    Originally Posted by VanceMack

    Me-Willful deception is commonly practiced. Even by those science minded folks. People frequently research things not to find the 'truth' but with the specific intent to prove a hypothesis. Mans gotta publish...right?
    You-Are you suggesting that scientists fabricate results? The only way to prove a hypothesis is to find supporting evidence. Unless the evidence is false, then your premise is faulty. Go ahead, accuse the scientific community of just being a bunch of liars.
    See what you did? You went from..."some scientists arent above creating a theory and then working to support it", to "go ahead accuse the scientific community of being a bunch of liars." Did I accuse "the scientific communtiy"? No. Did I state some research and even (gasp) researchers can be flawed, sometimes intentionally? Yes. I even gave you an example. Have I said all or even most evolutionary theory is corrupt? No. But off you go in your typical idiotic fashion creating a pretend argument then crowing in accomplishment when you have finally succeeded in biting your own tail. Good boy!!!

  5. #295
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Anyone who believes that the existence of evolution itself is a topic up for debate should ask themselves one simple question; where did my cute, fluffy, toy poodle come from?

    The history of animal domestication alone provides enough evidence that evolution does exist to one extent or the other, and that singling out and promoting 'favorable' genes through the breeding process will shape the way an animal will think, look, and act over time.

    Exactly, denying it exists at all just paints a person as blind, bias, dishonest and irrational.

    Debate how far it goes, who controls it, whatever you want, but the fact remains is that it does exists and as already been proven.
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  6. #296
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    Re: Evolution

    Just something to chew on...

    "On average, across the surveys, around 2% of scientists admitted they had "fabricated" (made up), "falsified" or "altered" data to "improve the outcome" at least once, and up to 34% admitted to other questionable research practices including "failing to present data that contradict one's own previous research" and "dropping observations or data points from analyses based on a gut feeling that they were inaccurate."

    In surveys that asked about the behavior of colleagues, 14% knew someone who had fabricated, falsified or altered data and up to 72% knew someone who had committed other questionable research practices.

    In both kinds of surveys, misconduct was reported most frequently by medical and pharmacological researchers. This suggests that either the latter are more open and honest in their answers or that frauds and bias are more frequent in their fields. If you choose the latter interpretation, it may be due to fears that only government sponsored scientists have a motivation to be ethical and industry is distorting scientific evidence to promote commercial treatments and drugs.

    A meta analysis of how honestly scientists think scientists in other disciplines or in the private sector behave in regard to ethical conduct would be interesting."
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  7. #297
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Just something to chew on...

    "On average, across the surveys, around 2% of scientists admitted they had "fabricated" (made up), "falsified" or "altered" data to "improve the outcome" at least once, and up to 34% admitted to other questionable research practices including "failing to present data that contradict one's own previous research" and "dropping observations or data points from analyses based on a gut feeling that they were inaccurate."

    In surveys that asked about the behavior of colleagues, 14% knew someone who had fabricated, falsified or altered data and up to 72% knew someone who had committed other questionable research practices.

    In both kinds of surveys, misconduct was reported most frequently by medical and pharmacological researchers. This suggests that either the latter are more open and honest in their answers or that frauds and bias are more frequent in their fields. If you choose the latter interpretation, it may be due to fears that only government sponsored scientists have a motivation to be ethical and industry is distorting scientific evidence to promote commercial treatments and drugs.

    A meta analysis of how honestly scientists think scientists in other disciplines or in the private sector behave in regard to ethical conduct would be interesting."
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  8. #298
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    and I know I've never fudged the truth on a Soldier's NCOER in order to improve his chances of getting promoted
    no one claims all scientists are saints or are immune to error. but science continues to be the most consistant and reliable means to uncover truth about reality. one reason is because science doesnt rely on a single or small set of data points. science is cumulative. it is self correcting as new data becomes available.

    its incredibly amusing when people such as yourself spend so much time in a vain effort to discredit evolution by criticising science yet have so much confidence that your computer, car, airplanes, cell phones, and vaccines work as intended. and when you get ill or injured you no doubt seek medical help at a hospital. all of which are products of the exact same science you so vehemently criticize.

    its obvious that your criticism of evolution is not about any honest doubt in the veracity of science but merely a psychological coping mechanism used to deal with your religious beliefs that are in conflict with certain aspects of science.
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  9. #299
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    ....." Did I accuse "the scientific communtiy"? No. Did I state some research and even (gasp) researchers can be flawed, sometimes intentionally? Yes. I even gave you an example. Have I said all or even most evolutionary theory is corrupt? No. But off you go in your typical idiotic fashion creating a pretend argument then crowing in accomplishment when you have finally succeeded in biting your own tail. Good boy!!!
    So what is your belief? You haven't said Nor, Conspicuoulsy, Voted in the Poll! Not even an "I don't know".

    What are you doing in this string?
    You say you're not accusing the scientific community- but you ARE doing just that by continually insinuating members of it...
    and thereby attempting to, if even in a minor way, Cast doubt on Evolution.

    If your only point is 2% of every profession stinks, you have no germaine point to this string.
    It's premise is NOT "all scientists are perfect".
    It's about the Fact of evolution and 150 years of evolution Science.

    (Disclaimer, I haven't read much of the middle of this string)
    Last edited by mbig; 08-29-11 at 05:14 PM.
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  10. #300
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    Re: Evolution

    I think that the majority of scientists strive to produce valid and reliable information.

    The world would be in a hell of a mess if the blueprint, so-to-speak, used for research and discovery was constantly corrupted and scientist were self-will-run-riot. The same fundamental process in scientific research is pretty much the same regardless of the discipline. If that wasn't so...and clearly evident, we'd see very little progress in so many areas of our lives.

    (1) Science consists of posting testable, falsifiable hypotheses;

    (2) Making predictions about what is not yet known;

    (3) Performing critical experiments or observations that can disprove certain alternative hypotheses and lend credence to others;

    (4) Seeking explanations in natural rather than supernatural causes;

    (5) Trying to falsify hypotheses rather than to prove them;

    (6) Remaining skeptical until independent investigators are able to corroborate new claims;

    (7) And subjecting one's ideas and data to the merciless criticism of other scientists.

    Nothing is set in concrete in science. The closest thing to unchanging laws are mostly all mathematical. But it's possible that one day there might be new discoveries that will lead to mathematic laws.

    What in knowledge or life is perfect? There's bad seeds in all walks of life. We would still be living in the dark ages if it weren't for science.

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