View Poll Results: Does evolution happen

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  • Evolution happens, and it is random

    65 71.43%
  • Evolution happens and is guided by a higher power

    10 10.99%
  • There is not enough information to know for sure

    7 7.69%
  • No, evolutuon does not happen

    5 5.49%
  • I don't know

    4 4.40%
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Thread: Evolution

  1. #11
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Did I mention mutations?
    "I think, instead, that evolution occurs on the basis of necessity. "

    What do you think mutation is?

  2. #12
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    Re: Evolution

    To me its a mix between the first two options haha... kind of a paradox but i think a higher power initiated the possibility of life/evolution to happen in this universe of uniformity, and i think that higher power knew exactly what original seeds of life would turn into wherever they were able to pop-up... and the potential of these life forms are only limited by the bounds of the physics around them(whatever the first sparks of life were like random proteins/ bacteria.)

    With this theory of mine i don't see how i could think of any life-form as better then another. All life is holy and has a "soul" to me... and this i pretty much the very basis of why i am a deist.
    Last edited by celticwar17; 08-18-11 at 07:58 PM.

  3. #13
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    Re: Evolution

    The mechanisms of evolution are in place. All domestic plants.and animals have been modified by humans from their naturally occuring state BY these mechanisms.

    I want to say that some evidence has been found in island and cloud mountain ecosystems of species that have varied widely from the root stock. Don't know if that's all the way to unable to reproduce. I do know one of the avenues of combatting viruses is to attempt to get them to mutate away from the ability to reproduce. Is that right Digs?

    That said, I've always felt the universe was a "made" thing. Who made it and why I suspect is not supposed to be completely knowable. Or the very nature of the universe may be substantially different than we currently conceive it.

    So I guess I have to pick other too.
    Last edited by What if...?; 08-18-11 at 08:01 PM.
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    Re: Evolution

    I agree with Tess on this issue. Yes, evolution happens... but is it purely random? I don't think so. Evolution appears to be, as Tess said, adaptation and mutation, with the most successful adaptation/mutation continuing on as the least successful versions become extinct. I also believe that certain stressors, like significant meteorites, volcanic eruptions, floods, climate change, provides the impetus for certain species to adapt.

    So I don't believe evolution is in itself random, but the results of millions of years of adaptation/mutation, during which time the stronger species survive. Case in point, the common cockroach, a design so successful that fossils of cockroaches from hundreds of thousands of years ago are nearly identical to species alive today, while other ancient animals have perished or evolved into something almost unrecognizable from their ancestors... example dinosaurs versus today's birds (yes, I know the genetic link is not categorically proven yet, but it's a fairly well accepted theory amongst much of the scientific community).

    I'm not going the higher power route. I accept that there is more to the universe and dimensional space theorum than I will ever understand in my lifetime; however, understanding that I do not know the answer and believing in an answer without empirical evidence of its existance are two entirely different things.

  5. #15
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    Re: Evolution

    To be clear: Mutations are random, and are what allow changes. "Survival of the fittest" isn't really random, but it is also not directed(assuming no higher power). It's a clever phrase to describe what mutations tend to flourish. WHen I said "evolutiuon is random", I meant kinda all of that, but did not explain clearly. My apologies to any who answered wrong based on that.
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    Re: Evolution

    Evolution makes a lot of sense to me, and I believe it is at the very least the mechanism for the development of our known universe. But what is beyond me is how matter itself came to be. I can follow it back to the Big Bang, but how did the materials for the big bang come to be? It gets to big for me to comprehend, so I leave it alone.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  7. #17
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    To me its a mix between the first two options haha... kind of a paradox but i think a higher power initiated the possibility of life/evolution to happen in this universe of uniformity, and i think that higher power new exactly what original seeds of life would turn into wherever they were able to pop-up... and the potential of these life forms are only limited by the bounds of the physics around them(whatever the first sparks of life were like random proteins/ bacteria.)

    With this theory of mine i don't see how i could think of any life-form as better then another. All life is holy and has a "soul" to me... and this i pretty much the very basis of why i am a deist.
    And, a creator of space-time would exist outside of it and observe all events in a spacetime universe as a simultaneity. The beginning and end, alpha and omega. Whether its name is yahweh and behaves like a dick is an completely separate issue.
    Last edited by What if...?; 08-18-11 at 08:03 PM.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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  8. #18
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Science doesn't work this way. Science is about falsifying hypotheses. We can never know with certainty any scientific hypothesis.



    Science, and scientists, also have not "scientifically observed" mountain ranges being formed. The fact that we cannot observe over the span of one human life the process under question is not a valid basis upon which to declare a hypothesis falsified.

    We have plenty of evidence of the speciation in progress.


    A demonstration of how small changes can lead to species-level differences is provided by ring species, in which two reproductively isolated forms are connected by a chain of intermediate populations. We review proposed cases of ring species and the insights they provide into speciation. Ring species have been viewed both as illustrations of the history of divergence of two species from their common ancestor and as demonstrations that speciation can occur in spite of gene flow between the diverging forms. Theoretical models predict that speciation with gene flow can occur when there is divergent ecological selection, and geographical differentiation increases the likelihood of speciation. Thus ring species are ideal systems for research into the role of both ecological and geographical differentiation in speciation, but few examples have been studied in detail. The Greenish warbler is a ring species in which two northward expansions around the Tibetan plateau have been accompanied by parallel evolution in morphology, ecology, and song length and complexity. However, songs have diverged in structure, resulting in a lack of recognition where the reproductively isolated forms come into contact in Siberia. Our analysis suggests that these differences could have arisen even with gene flow, and that parallel rather than divergent ecological changes have led to divergence in sexually selected traits and subsequent speciation.




    The evolutionary divergence of a single species into two has never been directly observed in nature, primarily because speciation can take a long time to occur. A ring species, in which a chain of intergrading populations encircles a barrier and the terminal forms coexist without interbreeding, provides a situation in which variation in space can be used to infer variation in time. Here we reconstruct the pathway to speciation between two reproductively isolated forms of greenish warbler (Phylloscopus trochiloides). These two taxa do not interbreed in central Siberia but are connected by a long chain of intergrading populations encircling the Tibetan Plateau to the south. Molecular data and climatic history imply that the reproductively isolated taxa came into contact following expansions northward around the western and eastern sides of the plateau. Parallel selection pressures for increased song complexity during the northward expansions have been accompanied by divergence in song structure. Playback experiments show that the two Siberian forms do not recognize each other's songs. Our results show how gradual divergence in a trait involved in mate choice leads to the formation of new species.
    Ring species also allow us to see transitional forms in life to an extent. Without using the fossil record, they allow us to say that yes, there are transitional species.

    When you can use the fossil record(which you should), you get some wonderful examples like Ambulocetus.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  9. #19
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    To be clear: Mutations are random, and are what allow changes. "Survival of the fittest" isn't really random, but it is also not directed(assuming no higher power). It's a clever phrase to describe what mutations tend to flourish. WHen I said "evolutiuon is random", I meant kinda all of that, but did not explain clearly. My apologies to any who answered wrong based on that.
    Oh. Well, I didn't answer at all based upon that, so I shall endeavor to do so now!

  10. #20
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    Re: Evolution

    Yes, I believe evolution is a real process that happens. I do not believe that it is guided by a creator, but I concede the point that it is at least possible that it was set into motion by some sort of creator and basically left to take care of itself. I don't believe this to be true, but I have no evidence against it.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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