View Poll Results: Does evolution happen

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  • Evolution happens, and it is random

    65 71.43%
  • Evolution happens and is guided by a higher power

    10 10.99%
  • There is not enough information to know for sure

    7 7.69%
  • No, evolutuon does not happen

    5 5.49%
  • I don't know

    4 4.40%
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Thread: Evolution

  1. #151
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    Re: Evolution

    People need to understand that creationism does not mean evolution can't also be happening. The Lord God set things in motion and gave us free will to make our own minds up about things. He doesn't demand that we believe in Jesus he just presents us the opportunity to believe and I believe that the same is true of this issue. The Lord God gives us information and the ability to decide for ourselves, and I have done that and I believe the Lord God set evolution in motion when he created the heavens ans the earth and even any E.T.s there might be.

    The Bible does not tell us there are no others out there.

    Remember the Bible is the word of God as seen by men who are relating what they believe many years after the events depicted took place and we all know things can be misinterpreted by man.

  2. #152
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Remember the Bible is the word of God as seen by men who are relating what they believe many years after the events depicted took place and we all know things can be misinterpreted by man.
    So, the bible is literal except when it isn't? How do you know what parts are true and which ones aren't?
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  3. #153
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    Re: Evolution

    No, you do that to show that a hypothesis is a theory. NO theory becomes law anymore. The word is just not used. To make it simpler, just put "theory" where you think "law" should go, and "hypothesis" where you think "theory" should go. That's the technical terms that scientists use.

    Relative time is not a law. It was determined within the last century or so, after people stopped using the word law. Now it is a theory. Theory does not mean it is untested. An idea only becomes a theory after many many experiments with consistent results.

    What I say really IS true. That's the terminology.

    How did they prove that times is relative? Go read Einstein's experiments, and some of Hawking's. They can explain it far better than I.
    Where is your evidence that scientists do not use the word Law anymore?

    Oh and by the way, Einstein derived relativity through thought experiments, not physical ones.
    Last edited by sookster; 08-21-11 at 05:08 PM.

  4. #154
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    Re: Evolution

    I will give you the benefit of the doubt. You are too busy to produce evidence that shows that scientists do not use Law anymore, right?

    Any person that does problem solving for a living, whether it is a doctor, computer technician, or even a plumber, have various strategies when dealing with problems. I started my professional career in Information Technology. I've troubleshooted Windows and Linux environments, networks, and domains. I also have some experience with DDoS, and I even was a NOC technician for a datacenter.

    The point of this, is to show you I practiced the very concept I am about to share. It is usually the most efficient method to go about a problem that you are unsure of the answer to, to eliminate as many possibilities as you can. The really good problem solvers have a very high capacity for divergent thinking, which is exactly what thinking of possibilities exercises. As people get better, not only are they able to create all the various possibilities, but they are able to put odds next to each possibility in their head.

    And so, to possibilities. I am not sure what you would have presented me in regards to evidence. If however, you were going to present me a timetable, whereas, scientists have not derived a Law in x amount of years, that is not evidence.

    It is evidence on the sheer difficulty to take a theory and make it into a law. As it should be! Scientific laws are undeniable truths to this universe, and so it should be very difficult in order to upgrade so to speak a theory into a law. You also have to take into consideration of our current times. Anyone who lives in the present, has the luxury to study the breakthroughs of the past. Through the study of steam engines during the industrial revolution, engineers stumbled upon the laws of thermodynamics. I'm sure that whole process took a whole lot of work, and now we can look them up on wikipedia.

    And where this knowledge, comes more possibilities. Theories that are being thought up currently, have not been thought up before. Well, some. I watched a documentary on Ancient Egyptians called The Pyramid Code I think. It is controversial, but one of the things that it shared was that the Ancient Egyptians had a hieroglyph for string theory. So it seems, we weren't the first to think that one up. But these theories with their vast creativity, also have vast implications, and vast difficulties in obtaining emperical evidence for their very nature. It might be the very nature of the theory itself that does not allow it to become law.

    An easy one is Evolution. We have a fossil record, no one denies that. But in order to put this theory and make it a law, we would have to witness ourselves the evolution of all life. Not just microbes. How can humanity do that if their lifespan averages about 70 years? There are two methods I can think of. Have an evolutionary biologist drink the fountain of life, or come up with a method that accurately depicts life at our current time and come up with a storage system that can store this information for eons. Not sure if that is possible yet.

    Or with string theory. Even though the math works out, and it provides answers to some of the oldest dilemmas. Why does light show properties of both a particle and a wave? String theory makes this a little more clear. Regardless, how can scientists prove without a shadow of a doubt that particles are just vibrating strings? They maybe able to one day with different technology, but right now, it is not possible.

    Scientific Laws are a part of the scientific method. They are Truths to this universe. In which case, you can apply these theories to their logical conclusion, because they are Truths. If you were to create a method that could discover these Truths, you would want to make sure these Truths are indeed Truths, right? Because it would be damaging to us, if we perceived something as a Truth and it wasn't.

    Just because something is a theory, doesn't mean it isn't right. All laws started as theories! It is just, at that point in time in history, scientists had the knowledge and technology to empirically verify those theories. Scientists could still do this today! The problem, as our knowledge becomes more sophisticated, so do our theories so to speak, which makes proving them a lot more difficult. But as history has shown us, nothing is impossible.

  5. #155
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    Oh and by the way, Einstein derived relativity through thought experiments, not physical ones.
    Derived it, yes, but it was tested in physical ways.

  6. #156
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I think you are under a few misconceptions about evolution, and human evolution in particular. We share a common ancestor with chimpanzees and bonobos, and if you go further back, all the great apes.

    A species evolving does not necessarily mean that new species will evolve with greater brain capacity and cognitive ability than the preceding species. Evolution does not mean that species "improve" in the sense that humans seek to improve themselves. It means that members of a species that are better adapted to surviving in a given ecosystem will out compete members of that species that are not as well adapted for that ecosystem. This process continues until speciation occurs and a new species arises that is better adapted for that ecosystem (the old species may still be around as well).

    For example, its a common misconception that of all the great apes, we are the pinnacle of evolution. In fact, chimps are more evolved than we are.

    Chimps 'more evolved' than humans - life - 16 April 2007 - New Scientist

    Thriving in the tropical forest ecosystems of equatorial Africa required different adaptions for chimps than thriving on the African Savannah did for us. We evolved with a higher brain capacity and as endurance athletes. Humans are some of the greatest endurance athletes in the animal kingdom. An ultra runner can run a horse into the ground. High endurance and high intelligence served humans and our ancestors quite well as hunter gatherers on the African Savannah. However, in a rain forest ecosystem, endurance is not nearly as advantageous as strength, particularly upper body strength. So we took different evolutionary paths. However, that does not mean that we are the most evolved.
    I've seen chimps push buttons and get a banana. That's pretty smart stuff.
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  7. #157
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    Re: Evolution

    I would like to see examples of evolution at work.

    Apropos, I would like to see abiogenesis in this discussion, seeing as evolutionists seem to demand it is the beginning of life.

  8. #158
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I would like to see examples of evolution at work.
    And I want to see God's foreskin.

    Something tells me that pointlessly impossible and uninformed requests like these largely go unfulfilled, though.


    seeing as evolutionists seem to demand it is the beginning of life.
    This is false.

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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    And I want to see God's foreskin.

    Something tells me that pointlessly impossible and uninformed requests like these largely go unfulfilled, though.




    This is false.
    If it is pointlessly impossible, then why have I experienced the athiest's persistent ridicule of the religious? If the religious are so irrational, then what explanation do athiests and evolutionists have for the beginning of life? If I must explain it simpler: if God did not create life, what did?

    If evolutionists do not demand that abiogenesis is the beginning of life, then what is? God?

    Perhaps instead of snideness, you could offer something more... substantial, perhaps, in relation to the start of life? Otherwise, I'd be left to think that both the religious and the athiests are, well, bound to nothing but beliefs.

  10. #160
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    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    If it is pointlessly impossible, then why have I experienced the athiest's persistent ridicule of the religious? If the religious are so irrational, then what explanation do athiests and evolutionists have for the beginning of life? If I must explain it simpler: if God did not create life, what did?

    If evolutionists do not demand that abiogenesis is the beginning of life, then what is? God?

    Perhaps instead of snideness, you could offer something more... substantial, perhaps, in relation to the start of life? Otherwise, I'd be left to think that both the religious and the athiests are, well, bound to nothing but beliefs.
    Why do evolution vs creationism debates always end up in debates over the existence of some power that is beyond our understand? i.e. debates over whether or not a "deity" exists? last I checked science never proclaims things as absolute facts and instead declares them as lying on differing levels of evidence based support. right now evolution is the best explanation for how organisms came to be and there is little to no understanding of how matter came to be in the first place. science doesn't attempt to support the theory of a deity existing because there is currently no way to measure related variables, i.e. things are too subjective. at least that's how I understand it.

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