View Poll Results: Does evolution happen

Voters
91. You may not vote on this poll
  • Evolution happens, and it is random

    65 71.43%
  • Evolution happens and is guided by a higher power

    10 10.99%
  • There is not enough information to know for sure

    7 7.69%
  • No, evolutuon does not happen

    5 5.49%
  • I don't know

    4 4.40%
Page 14 of 32 FirstFirst ... 4121314151624 ... LastLast
Results 131 to 140 of 311

Thread: Evolution

  1. #131
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,445

    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Sorry. Not letting you out of the debate Here. Upstairs. Too bad huh.
    Oh, I'm not interested in your "debate". I find it ignorant at best and likely dishonest. What I'm interested in are your personal attacks, and your likely lack of anything to back them up.

    And again/Twice Now your reply DISHONESTLY drops the Meat of my post:
    Yes, the second time BOLDED:

    This is DESPICABLE and LOST posting tactics.
    Truncating an opponents quotes, especially leaving off the Bolded Gist you Can't handle. Twice.

    As well as Leaving off from my last:
    What is despicable and lost is your attempt to change the subject. Abiogenesis obviously occured somewhere, unless you believe that life has always existed. I am discussing how life appeared on Earth, and I'm not interested in inventing answers for you outside what is known, reasonable or demonstratable.

    If you woke this morning and found a Ferrari in your yard, would you presume that it came from somewhere else or that it spontaneously assembled in your yard. The same reasoning points towards life coming from outside the Earth. This simple rationale does not require genius but is apparently beyond you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Apparently you're a very bad scientist, then. The first experiment that showed abiogenesis working, in a limited form, took place in 1952. This newer one in 2008 was even more promising. Seriously, what kind of idiot just sticks their fingers in their ears like this?
    Do you understand the definition of 'demonstrate'. Demonstrate does not mean imply. Demonstrate does not mean "almost did it". And demonstrate does not mean "was modeled". Demonstrate means to actually do something, and we have never managed to actually do abiogenesis.




    I don't get why people are so stuck on the idea that the Earth is the source of life. It's like I'm in ancient times and people are insisting, without conclusive evidence, that the Earth is the center of the universe.

  2. #132
    Sage
    Dezaad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Last Seen
    06-28-15 @ 10:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    5,058
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Oh, I'm not interested in your "debate". I find it ignorant at best and likely dishonest. What I'm interested in are your personal attacks, and your likely lack of anything to back them up.



    What is despicable and lost is your attempt to change the subject. Abiogenesis obviously occured somewhere, unless you believe that life has always existed. I am discussing how life appeared on Earth, and I'm not interested in inventing answers for you outside what is known, reasonable or demonstratable.

    If you woke this morning and found a Ferrari in your yard, would you presume that it came from somewhere else or that it spontaneously assembled in your yard. The same reasoning points towards life coming from outside the Earth. This simple rationale does not require genius but is apparently beyond you.



    Do you understand the definition of 'demonstrate'. Demonstrate does not mean imply. Demonstrate does not mean "almost did it". And demonstrate does not mean "was modeled". Demonstrate means to actually do something, and we have never managed to actually do abiogenesis.




    I don't get why people are so stuck on the idea that the Earth is the source of life. It's like I'm in ancient times and people are insisting, without conclusive evidence, that the Earth is the center of the universe.
    And yet, you are arguing the opposite. With zero evidence. You can demonstrate how 'life moves around' here on earth, but you have zero evidence to demonstrate how it could traverse space, and zero explanations, let alone evidence for how it arose elsewhere (that is, how the ferrarri got 'plopped' down wherever it first 'magically' appeared in the universe). Essentially, you argument rests on incredulity. You may be an atheist, and may possess a science degree, but your reasoning is as bad as any creationist.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  3. #133
    Professor
    sookster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    In my own world.
    Last Seen
    06-27-17 @ 10:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,838

    Re: Evolution

    Science doesn't work this way. Science is about falsifying hypotheses. We can never know with certainty any scientific hypothesis.
    This, in my view, is drastically false from the science I know. Let me say some things.....

    The four laws of Thermodynamics
    Boyle's law
    Couloumb's law
    Ohm's Law
    Newton's law of heat conduction
    Ideal gas law

    ...and I will stop.

    You see, these are laws, not theories. They all started as theories, but experiment after experiment after experiment showed that these "theories" hold true. Therefore, they can be conducted as scientific laws. If one were to apply for example the second law of thermodynamics throughout the course of the universe, as you should, since it is a law, you come up with a very "cool" ending to our universe. And once you take the possible time of life to exist, and divide it by the theoretical life of our universe, you get a number, and this number is so small, so miniscule, you can not but help to think......what if?

    With my time with physics, or any science really, but physics in particular, there comes a point to possible explanation. I can set up an experiment, and I can see that one variable is directly proportional to the other. It turns out, the correlation coefficient turns out to be the mass of the object I was studying. That is nice and complete. But not every experiment has such a complete wholeness. Why does dark energy have the value that it does? Why is gravity the weaker of the forces?

    What I am trying to say, is there is a clear limit to science. It can not tell us why certain numbers are where they are. We can think of a universe with a different value to the force of gravity, or to dark energy, or whatever. And there is this general trend, that if you were to deviate just slightly from these values, life would not be possible. So why? Why did the universe create values to countless variables, some that we have yet to find, and it all provided the possibility of life? It's funny, certain people will only look to mathematical probability when it is convenient. A lot of the criticism about probability is the very nature of the word. Probability is a measurement of likelihood, it never assumes impossibility. Of course, there have been mathematicians who have calculated that if a certain probability is calculated, you might as well call it impossible. The logic makes sense I suppose. But I am sure, the likelihood, of a system that creates itself in every step of the way, to allow life, is pretty improbable.

    My point is this. With our current understandings from science, if you make a logical claim or belief that there is no creator, that our world around us is just made naturally and nothing else, you are practicing faith. Just, as if someone who looks around them, and sees the beauty that our Creator made.

    Finally, to evolution. Evolution is not a law yet the last time I checked. And yet, people are criticized for not following the evolution hypothesis like it is a law. Of course, the very nature of the problem, it could never be put into a law unless you would be satisfied with microbiology. In microbiology, you can pass through generations upon generations of organism compared to let's say mammals. Which means, that the theory of evolution could be a law, it is just the very nature of having experiments to directly refute or prove evolution to be impossible.

    It is in my view, that it is politically correct to follow Evolution. I remember being taught evolution in school, and no one talked about the criticisms at all. My father, who decided to become a Pastor at one point in his life, read book upon book upon book for six years, that talked about the evolution vs. creation debate. There really are some valid arguments on the other side. It is in my view, that if you sided against evolution you would be viewed as a pseudo intellectual, regardless upon the contents of your thoughts.

    I believe the definition of the word coincidence is an illusion. And life sure needed a whole lot of coincidences in order for it to be here.

  4. #134
    Wrinkly member
    Manc Skipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Southern England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    23,253

    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    This, in my view, is drastically false from the science I know. Let me say some things.....

    I believe the definition of the word coincidence is an illusion. And life sure needed a whole lot of coincidences in order for it to be here.
    The argument from incredulity.
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

  5. #135
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    You see, these are laws, not theories.
    Laws describe phenomena that occur, theories attempt to explain why these phenomena occur.

    For example, the laws of gravitation state that gravitation occurs, while the theory of gravity posits that the force of gravity is what causes gravitation.

    This is something many people don't really seem to get. Laws do nothing more than describe things that occur, but they never explain why things occur. While theories focus on why things occur.


    That's the real difference between law and theory.

  6. #136
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,445

    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    And yet, you are arguing the opposite. With zero evidence. You can demonstrate how 'life moves around' here on earth, but you have zero evidence to demonstrate how it could traverse space, and zero explanations, let alone evidence for how it arose elsewhere (that is, how the ferrarri got 'plopped' down wherever it first 'magically' appeared in the universe). Essentially, you argument rests on incredulity. You may be an atheist, and may possess a science degree, but your reasoning is as bad as any creationist.
    We've found evidence of life on various things that were out there, and we've plenty of evidence of water elsewhere. Of course, that RNA on Earth came from somewhere else rests on the presumption that life outside Earth exists or existed (you expect me to prove that?). My "theory" is nothing more than common sense...

    1. Life outside Earth.
    2. Life on Earth.
    3. Can't demonstrate how it happened.
    4. Coulda happened elsewhere and got here on an asteroid or something. Hell, maybe someone like us launched RNA all over the place. These possibilities cannot be entirely discounted by an undemonstratable theory.

    I have an MSc. I'll give my real name, and have - at this forum, but the forum doesn't like that. I'm almost done with my PhD (writing dissertation during field research). Attacking credentials as fake is weak, but reminds me of how little it takes to be unbelievably awesome in the internet world. And I'm an atheist, have been since I was ~13 and I'm 40. I actually know what the definition is, perhaps that confuses you. My visitor messeges has some basic info about me, if you're interested (hard to believe, I know, but it is all true!).


    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    the theory of gravity posits that the force of gravity is what causes gravitation.
    That's not circular? I get your point but, still, that doesn't look right. The only "theory of gravity" I've ever seen linked was some hokey website.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-20-11 at 03:56 PM.

  7. #137
    onomatopoeic
    mbig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-17 @ 08:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,350

    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Oh, I'm not interested in your "debate". I find it ignorant at best and likely dishonest. What I'm interested in are your personal attacks, and your likely lack of anything to back them up.
    Likewise.
    Only I use logic you use Laughers .. like RNA shot around space by "someone like us" as Your inane abiogenesis, INSTEAD of attempting to tackle it.

    What is despicable and lost is your attempt to change the subject. Abiogenesis obviously occured somewhere, unless you believe that life has always existed. I am discussing how life appeared on Earth, and I'm not interested in inventing answers for you outside what is known, reasonable or demonstratable.

    If you woke this morning and found a Ferrari in your yard, would you presume that it came from somewhere else or that it spontaneously assembled in your yard. The same reasoning points towards life coming from outside the Earth. This simple rationale does not require genius but is apparently beyond you.

    Do you understand the definition of 'demonstrate'. Demonstrate does not mean imply. Demonstrate does not mean "almost did it". And demonstrate does not mean "was modeled". Demonstrate means to actually do something, and we have never managed to actually do abiogenesis.
    By all means please "demonstrate" YOUR theory that "someone like us" "shot" "RNA" around space.

    I don't get why people are so stuck on the idea that the Earth is the source of life. It's like I'm in ancient times and people are insisting, without conclusive evidence, that the Earth is the center of the universe.
    The sad part of your posts is that You SKIRT the problem abiogenesis by merely saying it came from "someone like us" somehwere else.
    Incredibly, Not understanding this is just Put-Off of the problem with an added "shot around" for good/Worse/Funny measure.

    As I have pointed several times and you probably now get, but are embarrassed, that's just Ingnorantly kicking the can down the road.
    Not shedding any light on the problem whatsoever.
    Me: "Where did Their RNA come from?"

    You are funnily and Ironically using the Bushmen classic "The Gods must be crazy"/Dropped-from-space-coke-bottle as your abiogenesis.


    EDIT: Note immediately below.
    Short-quoting/non-response at a new low.
    He's evaporated.
    Last edited by mbig; 08-20-11 at 04:21 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

  8. #138
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,445

    Re: Evolution

    INSTEAD of attempting to tackle it.
    What is this, football? Are you being paid by the terrestrial abiogenesis foundation? We all know the same about it. You tackle it, I'll watch.

  9. #139
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    The engines of evolution are genetic drift, selection pressure and mutation. For all intents and purposes, randomness is ever present. With selection, the randomness is related to the micro-environment that dominates. The world is filled with millions of micro-environments so if you frame your reference on the organism, then you'll find it in random environments subject to localized selection pressures.
    If there are clear pressures influencing outcomes that are not random, then the process in which evolution is directed is not random. Does the wind blow in random directions or is it dictated by various natural laws? Evolution is not a random process.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #140
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Do you believe evolution happened and is happening? Do you think a higher power guides evolution or is it random?
    This is a bad poll.

    Evolution happens and it is guided by the influences of the natural world. That much is certain. Evolution is no more random any more so than why the wind blows in certain directions.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

Page 14 of 32 FirstFirst ... 4121314151624 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •