• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Are you smarter than The Obama?

Are you smarter than The Obama?

  • Total voters
    33
Status
Not open for further replies.
TurtleDude said:
..the year I applied to law schools the top scoring black accepted at Yale Law had scores below hundreds of white males who were rejected.
Click to expand...

really?

how could you possibly know this?

did you get access to confidential student records or did you just hold up a sign demanding all black students reveal their LSAT scores?
 
OscarB63 said:
I apologize. twas my mistake. all you liberals look and sound alike to me.
Click to expand...

God...I am SOOOO glad I am no longer a conservative...

yes, really; I used to be almost Far-Right in my views. Hopefully you can, as I did, realize that there is a whole world of truth out there that conservatives do not want you to see. Kinda like The Matrix.
 
TurtleDude said:
a white guy would not have been accepted into Harvard Law with the same other credentials (or lack of them) as Obama in the year he applied.

try again
Click to expand...

How did a discussion of intelligence turn into a racism discussion? Obama is half white, does that mean he is only half smart Turtledude???
 
Phys251 said:
God...I am SOOOO glad I am no longer a conservative...

yes, really; I used to be almost Far-Right in my views. Hopefully you can, as I did, realize that there is a whole world of truth out there that conservatives do not want you to see. Kinda like The Matrix.
Click to expand...

Yeah, moby, sure, whatever you say. You moby's always seem to drop little clues which reveal your act. For instance, to left-wing hacks, everyone to the right of moderate is FAR-RIGHT whereas to a conservative, a FAR-RIGHT person is someone who is, you know, far to the right, so far right that they are seen as extremist and don't have much overlap with conservatives and libertarians.

So tell us, Mr. ex-Far Right Man, what was your membership # in the John Birch Society?
 
Phys251 said:
God...I am SOOOO glad I am no longer a conservative...

yes, really; I used to be almost Far-Right in my views. Hopefully you can, as I did, realize that there is a whole world of truth out there that conservatives do not want you to see. Kinda like The Matrix.
Click to expand...

yeah, and I was a liberal once. then I grew up and had to get a job and pay taxes.
 
TurtleDude said:
true. but we also can safely say but for him being black he'd never been accepted into Harvard Law. but you don't graduate MCL from HLS if you are stupid.
Click to expand...

hmm...looks like Turtledude was in fact the first person to bring up Obama's race.

no one defending Obama's level of intelligence had yet mentioned a thing about Obama going to Harvard Law and graduating summa cum laude and being President of the Harvard Law Review, and yet for some CRAZY reason Turtledude just had to bring up the fact that Obama is black and there is NO way he could have gotten into Harvard if he was white.

Turtledude, why did you feel the need to bring this up when no one else brought up Obama's getting into Harvard?

The fact is that race & Harvard were not even an issue until you brought it up. You insisted on forcing race into the discussion, and insisted on accusing Obama of not being intelligent enough to get into Harvard, because of his race.

That my friend, is racism. And furthermore, it appears that you would disregard ANY and ALL of his achievements in life, simply as being a product of sympathy for him being a black man.

That my friend, is racism.
 
Last edited:
RiverDad said:
Yeah, moby, sure, whatever you say. You moby's always seem to drop little clues which reveal your act. For instance, to left-wing hacks, everyone to the right of moderate is FAR-RIGHT whereas to a conservative, a FAR-RIGHT person is someone who is, you know, far to the right, so far right that they are seen as extremist and don't have much overlap with conservatives and libertarians.

So tell us, Mr. ex-Far Right Man, what was your membership # in the John Birch Society?
Click to expand...

"moby"?? Doesn't one have to be actively pretending to be conservative to earn that label? What is your justification for applying it now?

Please, can't we keep our terminology straight? Communication across the aisles is hard enough already.
 
Just1Voice said:
I'm sure you will understand that your claim to word-of-mouth access to that information is suspect. Please excuse me for not believing a word of it.
Click to expand...

of course not-it conflicts with your erroneous and unfounded view that is based on defend Obama at all costs.
 
Phys251 said:
Get the plank out of your eye before getting the speck out of others'. Racists are in no position to accuse others of racism.
Click to expand...

Calling someone a racist is a personal attack that should not be tolerated especially since nothing RD has said indicates he is a racist. Pointing out facts-even if they are disturbing to those who excuse certain cultural pathologies-is not racist
 
TurtleDude said:
of course not-it conflicts with your erroneous and unfounded view that is based on defend Obama at all costs.
Click to expand...

why did you insert race into a discussion that did not involve race?

did anyone suggest that Obama was smarter than you because he went to Harvard Law, was President of the Law Review, and graduated with highest honors?
 
Just1Voice said:
"moby"?? Doesn't one have to be actively pretending to be conservative to earn that label? What is your justification for applying it now?

Please, can't we keep our terminology straight? Communication across the aisles is hard enough already.
Click to expand...

I admit that I'm not up on the latest internet slang that you youngins use. Is there now a term for what Phys251 has done?

My views on the usage of moby are this: Language is a living thing and the meaning of my usage is conveyed in the context. If there exists a word that is more accurate than moby, then I plead ignorance and will do better next time, after you educate me about what word I should have used. If language was static then homosexuals wouldn't have appropriated the word gay unto themselves and it would still define happiness but because language is a living thing, ever changing, we also see that young people have reappropriated the word away from homosexuals and now use it to define things are are lame and for people who are losers. You can't have it both ways. You chastise me, but do you chastise homosexuals?
 
TurtleDude said:
of course not-it conflicts with your erroneous and unfounded view that is based on defend Obama at all costs.
Click to expand...
Do a bit of research before making unfounded observations about my perspective. I defend Obama when I believe it is the rational thing to do, IF I believe the position is defensible.

Don't throw that phrase "at all costs" around so lightly, please. You'll give the impression you don't know what it means.

Now, then. As far ar my view being "erroneous and unfounded" is concerned, you are a lawyer, are you not? Surely you know hearsay is not admissible evidence. That is what you gave us... hearsay.

Moreover, the folks you claim to have given you this confidential information had their own agenda, by your own admission, since they hated the policy, which makes it even more suspect.

The statement of yours I questioned deserved to be questioned, and you ought to know it. I am beginning to doubt your stated credentials.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Given from where Obama came from and to where he has gone to, I expect Obama is smarter then me

He certainly is more driven and achieved a higher level of academic achievement. The academic achievement while not always an indicator of intelligence, in this case I would say it is
Click to expand...
Anybody can be a lawyer, my dog has told me that he wants to be one. :)
 
Just1Voice said:
Do a bit of research before making unfounded observations about my perspective. I defend Obama when I believe it is the rational thing to do, IF I believe the position is defensible.

Don't throw that phrase "at all costs" around so lightly, please. You'll give the impression you don't know what it means.

Now, then. As far ar my view being "erroneous and unfounded" is concerned, you are a lawyer, are you not? Surely you know hearsay is not admissible evidence. That is what you gave us... hearsay.

Moreover, the folks you claim to have given you this confidential information had their own agenda, by your own admission, since they hated the policy, which makes it even more suspect.

The statement of yours I questioned deserved to be questioned, and you ought to know it. I am beginning to doubt your stated credentials.
Click to expand...

this isn't a court of law dude. RD already posted undeniable evidence about two law schools that show the top blacks admitted had lower scores than the bottom of the whites and asians

Here is some more information

News, Classifieds, legal announcements, sports, advertising, Articles and information in Fayette, Coweta, South Atlanta, Fayetteville, Peachtree City, Newnan, Tyrone and Senoia, Georgia

Dr. Sander cites as part of his study, performance indicators, which are eye opening. In the so-called elite law schools, 95% of whites had higher grades than their affirmative action counterparts and 8.2% of whites did not graduate from the elite law schools, while 19.3 of blacks failed to graduate. Professor Sander claims the rate of non-graduation for black students would fall to 13.5% without racial preferences while 8.1% of whites failed the bar exam on the first try and 38.6% of blacks failed the bar exam on the first try. Sander, again gives an astounding projection, by projecting that the bar exam failure rate for black students would fall to 20.5% without racial preferences.
 
RiverDad said:
I admit that I'm not up on the latest internet slang that you youngins use. Is there now a term for what Phys251 has done?

My views on the usage of moby are this: Language is a living thing and the meaning of my usage is conveyed in the context. If there exists a word that is more accurate than moby, then I plead ignorance and will do better next time, after you educate me about what word I should have used. If language was static then homosexuals wouldn't have appropriated the word gay unto themselves and it would still define happiness but because language is a living thing, ever changing, we also see that young people have reappropriated the word away from homosexuals and now use it to define things are are lame and for people who are losers. You can't have it both ways. You chastise me, but do you chastise homosexuals?
Click to expand...

If, based in context, you were attempting to say that you doubt Phys251 was ever conservative, then perhaps "charlatan" might have been more appropriate.

I agree about language being living, but I hope you understand that when you use the term "moby" for him, and I look at his profile to see he identifies as a liberal, that is going to raise question marks with me.

Do I chastise homosexuals for what, exactly? As a group, in a glaring generalization, probably not, whatever it is.
 
TurtleDude said:
this isn't a court of law dude. RD already posted undeniable evidence about two law schools that show the top blacks admitted had lower scores than the bottom of the whites and asians

Here is some more information

News, Classifieds, legal announcements, sports, advertising, Articles and information in Fayette, Coweta, South Atlanta, Fayetteville, Peachtree City, Newnan, Tyrone and Senoia, Georgia

Dr. Sander cites as part of his study, performance indicators, which are eye opening. In the so-called elite law schools, 95% of whites had higher grades than their affirmative action counterparts and 8.2% of whites did not graduate from the elite law schools, while 19.3 of blacks failed to graduate. Professor Sander claims the rate of non-graduation for black students would fall to 13.5% without racial preferences while 8.1% of whites failed the bar exam on the first try and 38.6% of blacks failed the bar exam on the first try. Sander, again gives an astounding projection, by projecting that the bar exam failure rate for black students would fall to 20.5% without racial preferences.
Click to expand...

That's not what you were talking about, though. You supplied very different numbers, and it appears like an attempt at deception to improve the strength of your claim. You should have stuck with the link.

And I am not your "dude."
 
Last edited:
In conclusion, view any black person in a top college with suspicion and assume they're dumb as ****.
 
Just1Voice said:
That's not what you were talking about, though. You supplied very different numbers, and it appears like an attempt at deception to improve the strength of your claim. You should have stuck with the link.

And I am not your "dude."
Click to expand...

Tell me-what did Obama have on his application that overcame a less than B plus average at Columbia-an average that was several deviations below scores that caused 90% or more of whites to be rejected
 
theplaydrive said:
In conclusion, view any black person in a top college with suspicion and assume they're dumb as ****.
Click to expand...

doesn't affirmative action cast suspicion on blacks who have degrees from top schools?
 
TurtleDude said:
Tell me-what did Obama have on his application that overcame a less than B plus average at Columbia-an average that was several deviations below scores that caused 90% or more of whites to be rejected
Click to expand...

How am I supposed to know that? Does it matter? Why continue to make a big deal of it? It's far in the past, and it seems to me he has acquitted himself of any suspicion of unworthiness quite nicely, simply going by the public record. We all know that acceptance is not based solely on grades and test scores.
 
Last edited:
TurtleDude said:
doesn't affirmative action cast suspicion on blacks who have degrees from top schools?
Click to expand...
No, the only thing that casts suspicion on anyone who has degrees from top schools is lack of intelligence (something, I might add, that often exists in spite of grades as most colleges know).
 
theplaydrive said:
In conclusion, view any black person in a top college with suspicion and assume they're dumb as ****.
Click to expand...

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want blacks and Hispanic students to be judged as individuals, then you can't have a system which allows unqualified blacks and Hispanics to be admitted as though they met the qualification bar. If you admit unqualified blacks and Hispanics then it is only rational for all the other qualified students to presume that when they encounter a black or a Hispanic student that that student is not qualified to be a student.

Look at the data I provided on admission into the law schools in Arizona and Nebraska. Every single black student, including the brightest among them, scored lower on the LSAT than the dimmest bulb among the white and Asian students. Students know the score. They'll judge rationally.

Now take a look at the culture that dominates the Military and Professional Sports. The Military institutes IQ tests before enlistment and refuses to enlist unqualified applicants. The racial aspect with respect to competence is pretty much non-existent in the military. The same too with pro-sports. Every athlete is on the team because they earned it by being a stand-out athlete. The race-competence-stigma mess doesn't exist.

Get rid of affirmative action and stop cooking the admissions process to achieve diversity and you'll likely find the same change in attitudes. Every black and Hispanic who is enrolled in university will be seen as being there because they had the competence to qualify for admission on equal terms with every other student. There would be no basis to assume that they're as, now how did you so elegantly put it, oh yes, "dumb as ****."

Affirmative Action stigma is quite real.
 
TurtleDude said:
Tell me-what did Obama have on his application that overcame a less than B plus average at Columbia-an average that was several deviations below scores that caused 90% or more of whites to be rejected
Click to expand...
Tell me, what would make someone think that Obama might have had something other than "I'm half black" on his application that caught the admissions office's eye...oh wait, he's the president. Extraordinary people sometimes get into extraordinary circumstances.
 
RiverDad said:
You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want blacks and Hispanic students to be judged as individuals, then you can't have a system which allows unqualified blacks and Hispanics to be admitted as though they met the qualification bar. If you admit unqualified blacks and Hispanics then it is only rational for all the other qualified students to presume that when they encounter a black or a Hispanic student that that student is not qualified to be a student.

Look at the data I provided on admission into the law schools in Arizona and Nebraska. Every single black student, including the brightest among them, scored lower on the LSAT than the dimmest bulb among the white and Asian students. Students know the score. They'll judge rationally.

Now take a look at the culture that dominates the Military and Professional Sports. The Military institutes IQ tests before enlistment and refuses to enlist unqualified applicants. The racial aspect with respect to competence is pretty much non-existent in the military. The same too with pro-sports. Every athlete is on the team because they earned it by being a stand-out athlete. The race-competence-stigma mess doesn't exist.

Get rid of affirmative action and stop cooking the admissions process to achieve diversity and you'll likely find the same change in attitudes. Every black and Hispanic who is enrolled in university will be seen as being there because they had the competence to qualify for admission on equal terms with every other student. There would be no basis to assume that they're as, now how did you so elegantly put it, oh yes, "dumb as ****."

Affirmative Action stigma is quite real.
Click to expand...
Having gone to a top 10 school for undergrad, I can safely say that there were students of all colors and backgrounds who had problems in college. Why did they have problems? One oftwo reasons: 1. They came from poorer backgrounds where their schools didn't prepare them well. 2. They picked a major that they weren't passionate about and as a result, did poorly. It wasn't a black or Hispanic problem - it was a situation problem that admissions offices and advisers saw past.

Moreover, you keep talking about "changing attitudes" and getting rid of the idea that blacks don't deserve to be there. The problem is, I couldn't care less about the biases that people like you and TD have when you look at every black person at a top school with suspicion. It's only a problem that certain people have, people that I have ZERO respect for. So keep looking at all these people with suspicion because at the end of the day no matter how "undeserving" you think they are, they'll probably end up being your boss or president one day and you're just going to have to deal with it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom