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Are you smarter than The Obama?

Are you smarter than The Obama?

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lpast said:
Its home environment and neighborhood environements...the very poor living in slums, ghetttos barrios whateve label you give it have pressures that other more fortunate kids cant even begin to understand....Look im an old white guy...that spent a good portion of my life in the worst neighborhoods of a major city...I saw first hand what some people have to live through and HAVE TO TRY AND OVERCOME it can be overwhelming...try and understand that these inner city kids live in much more dangerous world than suburban and richkids...they have to be aware of what they say who they talk to how they dress where they go...their main goal is not becoming prey of the animals they live amongst....more privledged kids cant even imagine what that pressure does to those kids
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I know this, I grew up in a poorer neighborhood and my father worked for the government by being a maintenance man for project housing at one time. I grew up in a poorer family but I chose to study hard to try and succeed. I got a good ACT score which earned me scholarships that help pay for school. I come from a poor family. I won't argue that poorer families have a harder time trying to rise up in college because we can't afford it like trust fund children. I fully support PELL grants and need based scholarships. However, I think race based scholarships are unfair and racist.
 
Thunder said:
put white people through 400 years of slavery and 100 years of segregation and see what their test scores look like.
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been there done that...they're called jews and they still test higher. next excuse
 
digsbe said:
I know this, I grew up in a poorer neighborhood and my father worked for the government by being a maintenance man for project housing at one time. I grew up in a poorer family but I chose to study hard to try and succeed. I got a good ACT score which earned me scholarships that help pay for school. I come from a poor family. I won't argue that poorer families have a harder time trying to rise up in college because we can't afford it like trust fund children. I fully support PELL grants and need based scholarships. However, I think race based scholarships are unfair and racist.
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Digsbe, with all due respect buddy..I grew up in a poor neighborhood myself...my father was a disabled ww2 vet and never made much money....but trust me when I tell you the neighborhoods im talking about, make ours look like Beverly Hills.....its not even close digsbe..
 
digsbe said:
I think it's stupid to lower standards or manipulate results to favor people of a certain race. That is racism and it punishes those who work hard for their grades. However, the fact that blacks may do less well than other races on tests is not a case of correlation=causation. They don't fail or do worse because they are black. If anything I think it may be due to lifestyles and a weaker drive to study and do well academically.
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centuries of slavery and segregation created a deeply entrenched culture of self-hatred and low-expectations among the African communities of the Americas. the point of affirmative action was and is to help blacks get ahead in industries and areas where it was shown they suffered from long-standing discrimination. was/is such a policy unfair to whites? perhaps.

but considering that whites profited from this system of segregation for more than 100 years, Im not sure their complaints now are really valid or should be respected.

where were the cries of "racism" from whites during the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s? they did not exist.

and the other difference is that Segregation was in place in order to HURT black people, who were seen as inferior.

while affirmative action is in place to HELP black people, in order to correct the damage done by an institutionalized evil.

to compare Segregation to Affirmative Action is pathetic & disgusting.
 
Thunder said:
centuries of slavery and segregation created a deeply entrenched culture of self-hatred and low-expectations among the African communities of the Americas. the point of affirmative action was and is to help blacks get ahead in industries and areas where it was shown they suffered from long-standing discrimination. was/is such a policy unfair to whites? perhaps.

but considering that whites profited from this system of segregation for more than 100 years, Im not sure their complaints now are really valid or should be respected.

where were the cries of "racism" from whites during the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s? they did not exist.

and the other difference is that Segregation was in place in order to HURT black people, who were seen as inferior.

while affirmative action is in place to HELP black people, in order to correct the damage done by an institutionalized evil.

to compare Segregation to Affirmative Action is pathetic & disgusting.
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No, affirmative action is racist and gives qualified individuals not of African decent a disadvantage when it comes to education and jobs. Affirmative action had it's place, and now it is no longer needed.

Do you support punishing entire races of people based on the actions of some of their ancestors? This is racism. It's a poison in American culture to not treat people as individuals but as members of a race/culture. I never compared segregation with affirmative action, but affirmative action is racist and discriminates. It's no worse than some backwater hick who only wants to hire white people and refuses to hire blacks purely based on race. We need to move away from racial classification and go towards individualism and merits.


lpast said:
Digsbe, with all due respect buddy..I grew up in a poor neighborhood myself...my father was a disabled ww2 vet and never made much money....but trust me when I tell you the neighborhoods im talking about, make ours look like Beverly Hills.....its not even close digsbe..
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Middle class neighborhoods? I've seen terrible neighborhoods up in DC where I used to live and I'll agree that suburbia is like Beverly Hills compared to the projects and poorer neighborhoods.
 
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lpast said:
That is quite the truth..working class parents breed more working class kids...professional parents raise more professionally inclined children...and it works in reverse going down the scale....
NO one is born inferior intellectually than anyone else...its breeding the sets the course
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The fact that I'm a professional who came from a working class single mother is why I blame the parents. The parents, if they are unhappy with being working class, should raise their children with the message "I want you to do better than me." The academic resources provided for their children are sufficient for them to move up a class from the previous generation of their family. This is, of course, under the assumption of effort on both parts (parent and child).
 
digsbe said:
No, affirmative action is racist...
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Affirmative action asserts that one racism is superior or inferior to another? Wow, I had no idea.

digsbe said:
..Do you support punishing entire races of people based on the actions of some of their ancestors?...
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Any industry, company, corporation, etc etc.....which has a clear and long history of discrimination against blacks, women, or other minorities, should be made to correct this historical evil by enacting affirmative action to right this wrong.

whether it be by quotas, education, recruitment, test-preparation, or extra points on tests, this historical evil must be undone.

however, I believe a judge should determine how long such affirmative action should take place and at what point it is no longer needed.

but as far as "punishing" a whole race for the crimes of their ancestors, sometimes justice is a bitter pill. such is the price we must pay for allowing such a situation to exist for soo long.
 
Mathematician said:
The fact that I'm a professional who came from a working class single mother is why I blame the parents. The parents, if they are unhappy with being working class, should raise their children with the message "I want you to do better than me." The academic resources provided for their children are sufficient for them to move up a class from the previous generation of their family. This is, of course, under the assumption of effort on both parts (parent and child).
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I agree with you...look my father who I loved more than anything couldnt write...he was a disabled ww2 vet who still went to work everyday in pain...he told me from when I was young...get a good job with benefits take care of the job and it will take care of you....thankfully he doesnt know how wrong he turned out to be with the greedy mutts of my generation...anyway the reason I told you this is....my father didnt know enough to push me to become a professional...I agree it starts with the parents...
 
but I should say that as far as affirmative action goes, I would have prefered we insured a free college tuition to all African-Americans to any state school, who graduate from high school. i think that would have been a great thing.
 
Thunder said:
Affirmative action asserts that one racism is superior or inferior to another? Wow, I had no idea.



Any industry, company, corporation, etc etc.....which has a clear and long history of discrimination against blacks, women, or other minorities, should be made to correct this historical evil by enacting affirmative action to right this wrong.

whether it be by quotas, education, recruitment, test-preparation, or extra points on tests, this historical evil must be undone.

however, I believe a judge should determine how long such affirmative action should take place and at what point it is no longer needed.

but as far as "punishing" a whole race for the crimes of their ancestors, sometimes justice is a bitter pill. such is the price we must pay for allowing such a situation to exist for soo long.
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Your view of justice is disgusting. Is it just to punish me, a while male, because other whites were racist in the past? What crime did I commit? Does my genetic code merit punishing me? It's unjust to have race based scholarships and racially motivated job/school opportunities.
 
digsbe said:
Your view of justice is disgusting.
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that's your one of many very silly opinions.

digsbe said:
Is it just to punish me, a while male, because other whites were racist in the past? What crime did I commit?..
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like I said, sometimes justice is a bitter pill.

affirmative action is not perfect, but it is there to correct a centuries old crime.
 
lpast said:
NO one is born inferior intellectually than anyone else...its breeding the sets the course
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That is not true we are all different not only physically but mentally emotionally and intellectually, no one can run a mile faster then it's possible for them to run it and no one can reach an intellectual capacity that is past their potential. Genetics play a role both physically and intellectually
 
Thunder said:
that's your one of many very silly opinions.
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This is a statement of no validity and does not debate my point logically.
like I said, sometimes justice is a bitter pill.

affirmative action is not perfect, but it is there to correct a centuries old crime.
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Please review my previous post and explain to me how that is justice.
 
EarlzP said:
Your right my IQ is not very high, but I was smart enough to know it early enough to achieve more them most people ever do, I know that an IQ only measures potential and nothing more, so just for arguments sake lets say that your IQ is 130 and you use 50% of it your IQ usage is 65, lets say that my IQ is 100 but I use 90% of it my usage is 90.

It's seems obvious to me that you think you know it all, I know I don't. I never made it pass the 9th grade but ended up in management in a large international company. Knowing that I lacked the ability to recall information I found a way to work around it, I never had a listening problem, If I wanted to be a chess master I would find the best players to learn from, Those who worked with "me" whether at a higher level of management or at a job that I supervised liked working "with" me" .

You don't impress me, you seem to be one of those "me me me" people you have no idea that it takes all of us working towards a common goal for the common good to achieve the best possible outcome for "all". You appear to think that your blood is a different color and more valuable then mine or some other non Ivy League individual.

The way that President Obama has attempted to work across the aisle, takes his time to collect the best information that he can before making a decision indicates to me that he is intelligent, that he is not intimidated by others that may have more knowledge then he has. President Obama has to learn when and where to draw the line, he needs to become tougher less willing to compromise his visions maybe by 2012 when the dems take the majority back in both houses and he is re-elected to a second term

A smart person recognizes their weakness and knows how to turn that weakness into strength. Listening to you leads me to believe that you already know every thing there is to know, I know a man with an IQ in the 140's he has spent the last ten years in his basement he knows every thing just ask him
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you are right on some things and wrong on others. You are right in noting some people with high IQs are failures and some people with limited education are successful No doubt about that at all.

Your claim that Obumble is trying to work across the aisle and get good ideas from everyone though is dubious. I think his biggest problem is he believes the fawning BS the press has lathered upon him and thus thinks he is the new Messiah
 
Thunder said:
Any industry, company, corporation, etc etc.....which has a clear and long history of discrimination against blacks, women, or other minorities, should be made to correct this historical evil by enacting affirmative action to right this wrong.

whether it be by quotas, education, recruitment, test-preparation, or extra points on tests, this historical evil must be undone.

however, I believe a judge should determine how long such affirmative action should take place and at what point it is no longer needed.

but as far as "punishing" a whole race for the crimes of their ancestors, sometimes justice is a bitter pill. such is the price we must pay for allowing such a situation to exist for soo long.
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Fascinating.
 
theplaydrive said:
Okay, so I'll take that as a "yes, a white man has probably entered Harvard Law with a gpa lower than 3.3". That's all I need to no. Have a nice day being upset that a black guy's the president and telling people your credentials left and right to make yourself feel better!
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your point is moronic. For example lets say the olympic team just selected a black male who only runs a 4.10 in the mile and I say that was wrong because white guys running 3.55 were cut from the team. Than you ask HAS ANYONE WHO HAS RUN A 4.10 mile made the olympic team? Sure-75 years ago that made the olympic team. The stuff I ran in HS would have medaled in a couple olympics and I didn't even make it to my state finals. Its the pool he competed against that counts not what Harvard may have accepted in 1913
 
lpast said:
I agree with you...look my father who I loved more than anything couldnt write...he was a disabled ww2 vet who still went to work everyday in pain...he told me from when I was young...get a good job with benefits take care of the job and it will take care of you....thankfully he doesnt know how wrong he turned out to be with the greedy mutts of my generation...anyway the reason I told you this is....my father didnt know enough to push me to become a professional...I agree it starts with the parents...
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I have sympathy for those who are not raised with the right mentality. With that said, it's fair to make the argument that this mistake should never last two consecutive generations. Suppose your parents did not raise you with the drive to succeed and you are unhappy with the result. Then you learn from their mistake and make certain you raise your children how you wish you would have been raised. This is one argument to discredit the slavery excuse, considering there have been many more than two generations since then.
 
Thunder said:
yeah, but its 100% correct. :)
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Your self declaration of my opinion is not logical debate. It neither validates your opinion or invalidates mine. The statement is a logical fallacy.
I consider it justice. As did every American administration since 1961.
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So then in the 1800's slavery was just? Appealing to law without backing your stance up logically is a weak argument. I'll say it a third time. Please go through my points and explain how punishing me for things I didn't do is justice.
 
Thunder said:
but I should say that as far as affirmative action goes, I would have prefered we insured a free college tuition to all African-Americans to any state school, who graduate from high school. i think that would have been a great thing.
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This would clearly be racism if not offered to those of any ethnicity who graduate.
 
Thunder said:
but I should say that as far as affirmative action goes, I would have prefered we insured a free college tuition to all African-Americans to any state school, who graduate from high school. i think that would have been a great thing.
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How.... odd. What an interesting piece of ammo..

Thunder, why do you think this? How is that fair?
 
TurtleDude said:
your point is moronic. For example lets say the olympic team just selected a black male who only runs a 4.10 in the mile and I say that was wrong because white guys running 3.55 were cut from the team. Than you ask HAS ANYONE WHO HAS RUN A 4.10 mile made the olympic team? Sure-75 years ago that made the olympic team. The stuff I ran in HS would have medaled in a couple olympics and I didn't even make it to my state finals. Its the pool he competed against that counts not what Harvard may have accepted in 1913
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I wasn't really talking about 1913. I wouldn't doubt that at least one white guy has had less than a 3.3 in recent times. Stuff like that happens and usually the types of people who end up in such extraordinary circumstances are extraordinary people who made the admissions office think differently - the kind of extraordinary people who end up being president.
 
Mathematician said:
Numbers do not lie. This does not, however, result in implication of inferiority of a race. These results are primarily based on a lack of effort and proper training. Ultimately, this falls on the shoulders of parents. Your shadow follows you, but if you try to follow your shadow then you will get nowhere.
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Excellent point

Jews make up 2% of the population in the USA. My class at Yale was at least 15%-25% Jewish and may have been even higher. 2% of my class would have been 26 students. I knew at least 100 Jewish kids in my class-and those were practicing Jews. That doesn't include those who were born Jewish and did not practice the religion or had one Jewish parent.

So why did a top college have so many Jewish kids? Is it because Jews are smarter than blacks and other underrepresented minorities. Why was Cornell Engineering School full of Asians and Indians? are they smarter than blacks who made up a very small number-certainly no where near the 12% that they make up of the US Population? Or do different ethnicities have different cultures and in the case of Jews its valuing education?

I sure don't know the answer but I do know that my brothers and one of my sisters in law have between them 6 Ivy degrees in areas such as an MBA and Masters in Architecture and all of them noted that their classes-and the classes one of my brothers taught as an adjunct professor at the HSofD, had far more Jewish students than the 2% that would be the statistically expected amount. My sister in law is Chinese and her brother was at Cornell Engineering. He joked that his classes looked like the spectators at a Pro Ping Pong tournament
 
theplaydrive said:
I wasn't really talking about 1913. I wouldn't doubt that at least one white guy has had less than a 3.3 in recent times. Stuff like that happens and usually the types of people who end up in such extraordinary circumstances are extraordinary people who made the admissions office think differently - the kind of extraordinary people who end up being president.
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well I know the year I applied to law school one professor at Yale Law-I believe it was Bork-speaking at a Yale Political union debate on affirmative action (the debate was picketed by the Black Law association featuring the infamous Anita Hill) noted that one year (it was either 79 or 80 IIRC) the highest scoring black admitted applicant had lower scores than over 500 rejected white males.
 
TurtleDude said:
well I know the year I applied to law school one professor at Yale Law-I believe it was Bork-speaking at a Yale Political union debate on affirmative action (the debate was picketed by the Black Law association featuring the infamous Anita Hill) noted that one year (it was either 79 or 80 IIRC) the highest scoring black admitted applicant had lower scores than over 500 rejected white males.
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I'm unmoved. How many of those blacks and poor disenfranchised white males became President of the United States? You're comparing a bunch of normal people to a guy who clearly isn't just some regular person. Like I said, extraordinary circumstances for extraordinary people.
 
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