View Poll Results: Are you smarter than The Obama?

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  • I am smarter than The Obama

    14 36.84%
  • We're evn, or just about

    8 21.05%
  • The Obama is smarter than me.

    16 42.11%
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Thread: Are you smarter than The Obama?

  1. #471
    Advisor Just1Voice's Avatar
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Tell me-what did Obama have on his application that overcame a less than B plus average at Columbia-an average that was several deviations below scores that caused 90% or more of whites to be rejected
    How am I supposed to know that? Does it matter? Why continue to make a big deal of it? It's far in the past, and it seems to me he has acquitted himself of any suspicion of unworthiness quite nicely, simply going by the public record. We all know that acceptance is not based solely on grades and test scores.
    Last edited by Just1Voice; 08-16-11 at 07:18 PM.

  2. #472
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    doesn't affirmative action cast suspicion on blacks who have degrees from top schools?
    No, the only thing that casts suspicion on anyone who has degrees from top schools is lack of intelligence (something, I might add, that often exists in spite of grades as most colleges know).

  3. #473
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    In conclusion, view any black person in a top college with suspicion and assume they're dumb as ****.
    You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want blacks and Hispanic students to be judged as individuals, then you can't have a system which allows unqualified blacks and Hispanics to be admitted as though they met the qualification bar. If you admit unqualified blacks and Hispanics then it is only rational for all the other qualified students to presume that when they encounter a black or a Hispanic student that that student is not qualified to be a student.

    Look at the data I provided on admission into the law schools in Arizona and Nebraska. Every single black student, including the brightest among them, scored lower on the LSAT than the dimmest bulb among the white and Asian students. Students know the score. They'll judge rationally.

    Now take a look at the culture that dominates the Military and Professional Sports. The Military institutes IQ tests before enlistment and refuses to enlist unqualified applicants. The racial aspect with respect to competence is pretty much non-existent in the military. The same too with pro-sports. Every athlete is on the team because they earned it by being a stand-out athlete. The race-competence-stigma mess doesn't exist.

    Get rid of affirmative action and stop cooking the admissions process to achieve diversity and you'll likely find the same change in attitudes. Every black and Hispanic who is enrolled in university will be seen as being there because they had the competence to qualify for admission on equal terms with every other student. There would be no basis to assume that they're as, now how did you so elegantly put it, oh yes, "dumb as ****."

    Affirmative Action stigma is quite real.

  4. #474
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Tell me-what did Obama have on his application that overcame a less than B plus average at Columbia-an average that was several deviations below scores that caused 90% or more of whites to be rejected
    Tell me, what would make someone think that Obama might have had something other than "I'm half black" on his application that caught the admissions office's eye...oh wait, he's the president. Extraordinary people sometimes get into extraordinary circumstances.

  5. #475
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want blacks and Hispanic students to be judged as individuals, then you can't have a system which allows unqualified blacks and Hispanics to be admitted as though they met the qualification bar. If you admit unqualified blacks and Hispanics then it is only rational for all the other qualified students to presume that when they encounter a black or a Hispanic student that that student is not qualified to be a student.

    Look at the data I provided on admission into the law schools in Arizona and Nebraska. Every single black student, including the brightest among them, scored lower on the LSAT than the dimmest bulb among the white and Asian students. Students know the score. They'll judge rationally.

    Now take a look at the culture that dominates the Military and Professional Sports. The Military institutes IQ tests before enlistment and refuses to enlist unqualified applicants. The racial aspect with respect to competence is pretty much non-existent in the military. The same too with pro-sports. Every athlete is on the team because they earned it by being a stand-out athlete. The race-competence-stigma mess doesn't exist.

    Get rid of affirmative action and stop cooking the admissions process to achieve diversity and you'll likely find the same change in attitudes. Every black and Hispanic who is enrolled in university will be seen as being there because they had the competence to qualify for admission on equal terms with every other student. There would be no basis to assume that they're as, now how did you so elegantly put it, oh yes, "dumb as ****."

    Affirmative Action stigma is quite real.
    Having gone to a top 10 school for undergrad, I can safely say that there were students of all colors and backgrounds who had problems in college. Why did they have problems? One oftwo reasons: 1. They came from poorer backgrounds where their schools didn't prepare them well. 2. They picked a major that they weren't passionate about and as a result, did poorly. It wasn't a black or Hispanic problem - it was a situation problem that admissions offices and advisers saw past.

    Moreover, you keep talking about "changing attitudes" and getting rid of the idea that blacks don't deserve to be there. The problem is, I couldn't care less about the biases that people like you and TD have when you look at every black person at a top school with suspicion. It's only a problem that certain people have, people that I have ZERO respect for. So keep looking at all these people with suspicion because at the end of the day no matter how "undeserving" you think they are, they'll probably end up being your boss or president one day and you're just going to have to deal with it.

  6. #476
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Having gone to a top 10 school for undergrad, I can safely say that there were students of all colors and backgrounds who had problems in college.
    Can you ask for your money back? That Top 10 school sure didn't deliver results which can be measured when looking at coherent argument. Here's what you've just done.

    Me: Blind people shouldn't drive cars because their blindness is the cause of many accidents.
    You: I've bee a driver for many years and let me tell you that I've seen plenty of accidents on the road and they usually involve drunkenness or speeding. Blindness had nothing to do with those accidents.

    WTF? Is that a logical response? You've completely contorted the issue and devised some nonsensical response so that you could arrive at the conclusion you wanted to advance (Blindness had nothing to do with the accidents) the poor qualification of blacks and Hispanics admitted under Affirmative Action admissions policies had nothing to do with their doing poorly in school. Research shows otherwise.

    Moreover, you keep talking about "changing attitudes" and getting rid of the idea that blacks don't deserve to be there.
    When's the last time you saw a man in a wheelchair qualify for the US Olympic 100m sprint team? If he was placed on the team even though he didn't qualify through getting a winning time in earlier trials, you'd say he was unqualified to be there.

    No one is saying that blacks don't deserve to "be there" what I, and others, are saying is that unqualified people don't deserve to be there. Affirmative action doesn't apply to all people, only to minorities, so of course it is the minorities who get targeted for being unqualified and not deserving to be there. Once there is a fair system then everyone who is admitted under the same rules will be judged to be qualified and they'll all deserve to be there, which means, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, whites, South Asians, Jews, handicapped, homosexuals, Native Americans, you name it.

  7. #477
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    No one is saying that blacks don't deserve to "be there" what I, and others, are saying is that unqualified people don't deserve to be there. Affirmative action doesn't apply to all people, only to minorities, so of course it is the minorities who get targeted for being unqualified and not deserving to be there. Once there is a fair system then everyone who is admitted under the same rules will be judged to be qualified and they'll all deserve to be there, which means, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, whites, South Asians, Jews, handicapped, homosexuals, Native Americans, you name it.
    You'll never get what you want by railing against the social programs. Why not remove the stated reasons for having them to the satisfaction of a majority of those who fight to keep them in place? Cooperation nets more reliable results. I keep telling the folks on the abortion forum that they will "save more babies" if they took all that money and energy in a different direction and asked the folks that spend so much time and effort opposing them to help find alternative and peaceful ways to reduce or eliminate the reasons women have abortions, in exchange for keeping the abortion procedure safe and legal. Doesn't anyone here understand games theory even a little bit?

  8. #478
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    How is it someone that graduated from Harvard with the exceptional honors that Obama did, is not be qualified to get in??? Where is the proof he got in on affirmative action anyway? Isn't this just another of the racist talking points we heard from the tea party about his birth certificate???
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #479
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Can you ask for your money back? That Top 10 school sure didn't deliver results which can be measured when looking at coherent argument. Here's what you've just done.

    Me: Blind people shouldn't drive cars because their blindness is the cause of many accidents.
    You: I've bee a driver for many years and let me tell you that I've seen plenty of accidents on the road and they usually involve drunkenness or speeding. Blindness had nothing to do with those accidents.

    WTF? Is that a logical response? You've completely contorted the issue and devised some nonsensical response so that you could arrive at the conclusion you wanted to advance (Blindness had nothing to do with the accidents) the poor qualification of blacks and Hispanics admitted under Affirmative Action admissions policies had nothing to do with their doing poorly in school. Research shows otherwise.
    /cool story bro

    You distorted my argument and then criticized me for your distortion. Can I get my tax money back for contributing to your education?

    When's the last time you saw a man in a wheelchair qualify for the US Olympic 100m sprint team? If he was placed on the team even though he didn't qualify through getting a winning time in earlier trials, you'd say he was unqualified to be there.

    No one is saying that blacks don't deserve to "be there" what I, and others, are saying is that unqualified people don't deserve to be there. Affirmative action doesn't apply to all people, only to minorities, so of course it is the minorities who get targeted for being unqualified and not deserving to be there. Once there is a fair system then everyone who is admitted under the same rules will be judged to be qualified and they'll all deserve to be there, which means, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, whites, South Asians, Jews, handicapped, homosexuals, Native Americans, you name it.
    Great. Looking at a black guy and being suspicious of whether he deserves to be there based on his skin color is what we call prejudice and possibly racism. A lot of us get by without having to use either one of those things. I had a great experience in school with many diverse people and the only time I questioned their acceptance when they were obviously incapable of performing and I met people of all races like this, so your litmus test for who deserves to be there and who likely doesn't is retarded in my experience.

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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    How is it someone that graduated from Harvard with the exceptional honors that Obama did, is not be qualified to get in??? Where is the proof he got in on affirmative action anyway? Isn't this just another of the racist talking points we heard from the tea party about his birth certificate???
    It goes to show you that no matter what some black/Hispanic/not white people do, their success will always be considered suspicious and illegitimate by some. That's why I don't take the "affirmative action increases tension" argument seriously - it's the argument of people who look at a President, former professor offered tenure, former president of the Harvard Law review and honors graduate of Harvard Law and only see an affirmative action black guy. Some people just can't handle it and no policy will satiate their prejudices.

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