View Poll Results: Are you smarter than The Obama?

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  • I am smarter than The Obama

    14 36.84%
  • We're evn, or just about

    8 21.05%
  • The Obama is smarter than me.

    16 42.11%
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Thread: Are you smarter than The Obama?

  1. #411
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    Well, I am somewhat dubious of a person admitting that the data is slanted while simultaneously standing behind it, but ok, that's what we have to go on thus far. What of it?
    I'm willing to cut these guys some slack because I understand the history of the jihad that the liberal creationists launched on anyone who veered from the party line. EO Wilson was physically attacked. Jensen, a highly prolific researcher who work has withstood numerous challenges was vilified. Stephen Jay Gould falsified data in order to smear opponents (his book, The Mismeasure of Man, is basically garbage now.) Klein and Takahata alluded to this in the piece I linked earlier:


    It is certainly not shared by all anthropologists and is by no means the majority opinion of the public at large. It appears to be a conclusion reached more on the basis of political and philosophical creeds than on scientific arguments. Correspondingly, anthropologists who do hold this opinion often attempt to shout down their opponents rather than convince them by presentation of facts. Their favored method of argumentation is to label anybody who disagrees with them as racist.


    The American Anthropological Association has divorced itself from science in order to more freely pursue advocacy:


    Anthropologists have been thrown into turmoil about the nature and future of their profession after a decision by the American Anthropological Association at its recent annual meeting to strip the word “science” from a statement of its long-range plan.

    The decision has reopened a long-simmering tension between researchers in science-based anthropological disciplines — including archaeologists, physical anthropologists and some cultural anthropologists — and members of the profession who study race, ethnicity and gender and see themselves as advocates for native peoples or human rights.


    It's sad that people can't stand behind their data, but even today we still find plenty of scientists hiding behind squid ink. They may be studying the genetics of Alzheimer's and they purposely create data sets which omit race because they simply don't want to touch the issue. The creationist zealots in the academy are pretty vicious.

    The findings may stand as accurate, but what is it you seek to interpret that data to mean? How are you applying it?
    It's one data point amongst thousands, all of which reinforce each other. This is why the hereditarian perspective is so difficult to knock down. It's the most parsimonious. It's not as extremist as the environmentalist perspective because it acknowledges the role of environment as having some influence, unlike the environmentalist position which stakes out the position that genetics can play no role in the issue of the Achievement Gap.

    Specifically to your point - the variance we see in IQ between race is quite often "explained" away as an byproduct of differing social environments, differing parental styles, differing cultural values, differing exposure to outside influences, differing exposure to quality schools, differing exposure to quality teachers, etc. These transracial adoption studies (there are more than one) manage to control for a host of the factors that are used to raise doubt on the issue. Here we have, basically a family, but a family with children from different races. These children are exposed to the same (within practical limits) environment as they are being raised. The principal factor that distinguishes the children from each other is their genetics - they are the offspring of different parents. With environmental factors being controlled, the variance that develops can be explained away by fewer and fewer environmental factors.

    An IQ tests results are affected as much by the way the taker organizes their thinking as it is by it's measurement of one's ability to learn.
    How does "organize one's thinking" develop into action? Is it intuitive? Is it a behavior that is picked up from culture, from family? Is it taught? If it's intuitive then it is a remarkable coincidence, is it not, that this varies by race and that there is a rank order effect seen across all of the families? If it's learned somehow, then shouldn't all of the children be uniformly exposed within their families. Why is it that the biological children have better "organized-thinking skills" than the adopted white children, who in turn have better "organized-thinking skills" than half-black and half-white children, who in turn do better than the adopted children who were born to two black parents?

    It's not really accurate as a determinant of how "smart" a person is in a practical, real-world sense.
    It's not deterministic, but it's the best single factor that exists. It doesn't guarantee success, but the probability is heavily weighted towards success. The Benbow study on Mathematically Precocious Youth which began in 1972 and is still going strong, follows the lives of people, who at 13, scored above 700 on the SAT math test. If these tests had little predictive ability, then the 5,000 people who are a part of this study should be little different in life outcomes than a random slice of 5,000 people drawn from the general population. Using just that single test to parse these people into one group produces a group that has had remarkable accomplishment over the years, accomplishments that far exceed the population norm.

    To continue, IQ tests predict health outcomes:


    ABSTRACT—Large epidemiological studies of almost an entire population in Scotland have found that intelligence (as measured by an IQ-type test) in childhood predicts substantial differences in adult morbidity and mortality, including deaths from cancers and cardiovascular diseases. These relations remain significant after controlling for socioeconomic variables. One possible, partial explanation of these results is that intelligence enhances individuals’ care of their own health because it represents learning, reasoning, and problem-solving skills useful in preventing chronic disease and accidental injury and in adhering to complex treatment regimens.


    IQ tests predict job performance:

    Are you smarter than The Obama?-iqwork-jpg

    Just as an example, that same author has stated that people who are more creative can give "wrong" answers because they view the problem from a different perspective.
    That's a pretty creative bit of soothing pablum he uttered, isn't it? Some of us like to call it squid ink. Here's the problem with the validity of his statement. If it was an accurate assessment of what is going on then it would throw the correlations of IQ to creativity all to hell. We'd be seeing all through the literature that low IQ people were very creative and that high IQ people were not creative. But that's not what we see. Further, there is a greater definitional problem with creativity than there is with intelligence. With intelligence we can correlate it to a broad spectrum of life but creativity is more difficult to quantify. So, when we see creativity being expressed in the real world it can take many forms. There is literary and artistic creativity which isn't reliant on intelligence as much as the creativity of innovation we see in chip design, new pharmaceutical compounds. You can take a highly creative person with average IQ and try to get them to design a new drug and they'd be lost because they don't have the intelligence to sit in on that poker game. Anyways, when he makes that statement all that he's done is bought himself some plausible deniability so he can continue to research in peace and not be targeted by liberal creationist zealots because it is precisely this type of message, one which gives hope on another avenue, which serves very well at quelling the fury in the heart of liberal creationist zealots.

    He has also related creativity to leadership in a very positive light. Your presented data cannot really be used to measure ones potential to lead intelligently.
    It also can't be used to measure one's potential to be a persuasive speaker or to be a cooperative worker just like Electrocardiography can't measure what Electroencephalography measures. Just because an Electrocardiograph can't measure what an Electroencephalograph measures doesn't mean that the Electrocardiograph isn't very useful for what it measures.

    There is no single better psychological predictor of a host of sociological outcomes than IQ. Period. Full Stop. It's not perfect and no one is claiming it is. It's a pretty weak attack to argue that because a metric is not perfect that it therefore is useless and that until a perfect measure is devised that no measure should be used. I'm not saying that this is the thrust of your argument, I'm just pointing out that this is a common line of attack.

    To your question. So what?

  2. #412
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Smarter than what? That's the question, and I haven't seen an answer that satisfies me.

    I'm sorry I thought everyone had read the poll by now. I was saying that Obama is smarter than the posters on this forum.

    Has he learned or demonstrated leadership?
    Obama acted decisively to stop the world from going into economic depression, after inheriting a mess from his predecessor; He has helped create 2.5 million jobs so far; He achieved passage of the health care bill; He has provided more funding for nuclear power and alternative energy than any president in history, He got financial regulation passed; He has achieved more pollution reduction regulation than any president in recent history, and he brought the end to the mastermind of the 9/11 attack to name just a few of the results of his leadership,

    and all of this he did with the GOP standing in the way. In my opinion those are rather impressive accomplishments.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #413
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Obama willfully and intentionally stayed clear of the race issue throughout most of his campaign. Seriously, man, your racist trolling is getting old.
    Yeah, which is why his campaign accused President Clinton of being a racist. Which is why he said:


    Sen. John McCain's campaign accused Sen. Barack Obama of playing the "race card" on Thursday, a day after the Democrat said his opponent and other Republicans would try to scare voters by pointing to Obama's "funny name" and the fact that "he doesn't look like all those other presidents on those dollar bills."


    Too bad we can't ask Geraldine Ferraro whether she felt that Obama was exploiting his race.

    Willfully and intentionally. Right. How's that bubble you're living in?

  4. #414
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    To your question. So what?
    I don't recall asking a question in this thread to which "So what?" might serve as an answer, but you have met my inquiries with what appears to be reasoned arguments. Thanks.

    I will prefer to reserve my own conclusions on this data til after I have read the book you are referencing for myself, of course, and I am sure you understand.

    But whether your take on it turns out to be accurate or not, I am still of the opinion that seeing to it that every child's individual potential for success and preparedness for adult life is maximized, and their weaknesses addressed and minimized has to be the best possible investment in our collective future, regardless of the possible disparities in performance on the other end. To my reasoning, and in the opinions of the liberal minds I am personally acquainted with, this is acceptable, provided the playing field is level. This is as close to a social "reset button" we are able to conceive of, and if it can't do the trick, then no amount of social programs will ever correct the issue. The resultant generation, regardless of disparities in individual performance, will still be far more able to solve the problems facing our future than we are now. For I and my peers, that is enough.

  5. #415
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Your self declaration of my opinion is not logical debate. It neither validates your opinion or invalidates mine. The statement is a logical fallacy.

    So then in the 1800's slavery was just? Appealing to law without backing your stance up logically is a weak argument. I'll say it a third time. Please go through my points and explain how punishing me for things I didn't do is justice.
    Thunder, like many far lefties, believes in group rights and group blood debt. affirmative action is racist twice over. First it punishes-often Jewish students-those who had nothing to do with slavery or oppression and rewards people who often are wealthier (rich blacks were generally the recipients of affirmative action at the ivies and top professional schools) than those who are disadvantaged by this evil system.

    secondly, it is based on racist assumptions. Jews and "Boat people" one or two generations removed from genocidal oppression are assumed competent to "make it" without affirmative action but blacks who are several generations removed from slavery are unable to cope with modern academic requirements. in other words, the biggest proponents of affirmative action assume blacks are intellectually inferior



  6. #416
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I'm unmoved. How many of those blacks and poor disenfranchised white males became President of the United States? You're comparing a bunch of normal people to a guy who clearly isn't just some regular person. Like I said, extraordinary circumstances for extraordinary people.
    Logic does not appear to move you based on your posts. The fact is Obama's GPA was many deviations below hundreds of whites who were rejected from harvard and blacks who entered harvard were grossly inferior-in terms of GPA/LSAT scores to at least a couple thousand rejected whites



  7. #417
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    folks who go to trade-schools can end up becoming part of the lower-upper class.

    its not uncommon to see a carpenter or mechanic making more than 100k.
    Yeah thanks Captain Obvious-that was the point I was making. Motivated people who go to trade school often make far more than college graduates who majored in French literature or Native American Dance etc



  8. #418
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    and for the record, I do NOT support blanket affirmative action in industries and companies that do NOT have a proven track-record of long-term discrimination.

    and I do NOT support affirmative action for blacks who are not descended from African-slaves.

    affirmative-action was created to right a HISTORIC wrong, known as slavery & segregation. only those who have actually suffered from such institutions should profit from the remedy created for it.
    every member of my family that was in the USA at the time of slavery did not own slaves and two of my ancestors were famous civil war UNION officers. using your logic that means us whites who were anti slavery should not be victimized by affirmative action. and given almost every Jew in the USA came after slavery was ended as is the case with most Asians, they should not be victimized by affirmative action even though at major professional schools, it is Jews and Asians who take a disproportionate beating by affirmative racism



  9. #419
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    are you familiar with the logical fallacy known as the ad hominem & guilt by association?
    funny you mention guilt by association and then support affirmative racism against whites for slavery



  10. #420
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Yeah thanks Captain Obvious-that was the point I was making. Motivated people who go to trade school often make far more than college graduates who majored in French literature or Native American Dance etc
    We actually agree on something...I had a guy working for me that had a Doctorate in Chinese Philosophy..

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