View Poll Results: Are you smarter than The Obama?

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  • I am smarter than The Obama

    14 36.84%
  • We're evn, or just about

    8 21.05%
  • The Obama is smarter than me.

    16 42.11%
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Thread: Are you smarter than The Obama?

  1. #401
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    ..Until you can tell me how you can reconcile a belief in evolution and a belief that some unspecified mysterious force put a forcefield around the human brain and prevented any variation from developing, you're no different than a religious creationist who believes that god is the mysterious force that made mankind in his image....
    #1. please present a study comparing the IQs of Africans & Europeans who grew up in the same socio-economic status.

    #2. comparing my views to Creationists doesn't make yours any more right. In fact, it tends to suggest the opposite.

  2. #402
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    are you familiar with the logical fallacy known as the ad hominem & guilt by association?
    You're one to talk about logical fallacies.

  3. #403
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    #1. please present a study comparing the IQs of Africans & Europeans who grew up in the same socio-economic status.
    I can do better than that. Transracial Adoption studies compare IQs of adopted children, of varying races, raised in the same family:

    A Transracial Adoption Study




    Upper-class white families adopted children. The parents had IQs that were 1 SD above the white mean. Their own biological children are included in the study.

    Here you have more than you asked for. The same socioeconomic status and even the same families. Kids being raised with the same values, going to the same schools, eating the same diets, mingling in the same social circles, being exposed to the same parental attitudes and discipline, being exposed to the same work ethic of their parents, being exposed to the same child rearing practices of the parents, etc.

    Tick, tick, tick . . . now that you've been provided what you've asked for how are you going to move the goalposts and what new thing will you demand?

    #2. comparing my views to Creationists doesn't make yours any more right. In fact, it tends to suggest the opposite.
    If you're going to spout creationist nonsense but simply omit the god part of it, then own up to it. You're relying on some mystery forcefield preventing variation in intelligence from developing when we know very well that variation in intelligence is a characteristic we see about us all day, every day, in all the people we meet. Clearly there isn't a static metric on intelligence. If it can vary amongst individuals, then there is nothing preventing variation in intelligence having different distribution between groups.

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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I think most of the honest people on this forum would agree that Obama is smarter. The more important question is whether Obama is smarter than those who have said they want to run against him, and I have not seen one come forward to date who is smarter than Obama IMO.
    Smarter than what? That's the question, and I haven't seen an answer that satisfies me. Grades and degrees are measures, but there are other measures too. One really important one is whether one learns from errors. I haven't seen evidence that Obama has learned anything so far from his mistakes. In fact, he seems to be repeating them and demonstrating his hubris again and again. I mean, that's really nice that he's got a degree from Harvard Law. But does he know how to choose employees? Has he learned or demonstrated leadership?

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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    I can do better than that. Transracial Adoption studies compare IQs of adopted children, of varying races, raised in the same family:

    A Transracial Adoption Study




    Upper-class white families adopted children. The parents had IQs that were 1 SD above the white mean. Their own biological children are included in the study.

    Here you have more than you asked for. The same socioeconomic status and even the same families. Kids being raised with the same values, going to the same schools, eating the same diets, mingling in the same social circles, being exposed to the same parental attitudes and discipline, being exposed to the same work ethic of their parents, being exposed to the same child rearing practices of the parents, etc.

    Tick, tick, tick . . . now that you've been provided what you've asked for how are you going to move the goalposts and what new thing will you demand?
    Of course, you realize that the author of that study has serious criticism about IQ tests, what they really measure, and how they are used, right?
    The data you are presenting is out of context. What is it you are trying to prove, exactly?
    Are you basing this line of reasoning on the common interpretation of that data or the most cutting edge (or somewhere in-between)?

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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    Of course, you realize that the author of that study has serious criticism about IQ tests, what they really measure, and how they are used, right?
    The data you are presenting is out of context. What is it you are trying to prove, exactly?
    Are you basing this line of reasoning on the common interpretation of that data or the most cutting edge (or somewhere in-between)?
    The author also made note that they slanted their interpretation to please the environmental zealots and that, in the late 90s, he declared that he wished he hadn't have done that.

    Whatever the researcher's opinions on IQ tests, they're immaterial to his findings and he stands behind them. They've been poured over by plenty of people who are interested in the topic and they're still standing.\

    The data is out of context because I'm going one better on Thunder who merely wanted a study which controlled for socioeconoimc status. This controls for SES and it also controls for an assortment of family environment variables.

    ETA: If you want to take this discussion beyond IQ tests, I'm willing. I've got a lot more I can unload into this thread that undermines the creationist perspective and doesn't rely on IQ tests.
    Last edited by RiverDad; 08-16-11 at 02:35 AM.

  7. #407
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    The author also made note that they slanted their interpretation to please the environmental zealots and that, in the late 90s, he declared that he wished he hadn't have done that.

    Whatever the researcher's opinions on IQ tests, they're immaterial to his findings and he stands behind them. They've been poured over by plenty of people who are interested in the topic and they're still standing.\

    The data is out of context because I'm going one better on Thunder who merely wanted a study which controlled for socioeconoimc status. This controls for SES and it also controls for an assortment of family environment variables.
    Well, I am somewhat dubious of a person admitting that the data is slanted while simultaneously standing behind it, but ok, that's what we have to go on thus far. What of it?
    The findings may stand as accurate, but what is it you seek to interpret that data to mean? How are you applying it?
    An IQ tests results are affected as much by the way the taker organizes their thinking as it is by the taker's ability to learn.
    It's not really accurate as a determinant of how "smart" a person is in a practical, real-world sense.
    Just as an example, that same author has stated that people who are more creative can give "wrong" answers because they view the problem from a different perspective.
    He has also related creativity to leadership in a very positive light. Your presented data cannot really be used to measure ones potential to lead intelligently.
    Last edited by Just1Voice; 08-16-11 at 03:01 AM.

  8. #408
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    For a man who rode into the White House on the basis of his race, with the help of liberal racists, it's only natural that this issue come up. Secondly, the man's entire career has been built on exploiting race, so it dominates discussion about him, just like Ike's military career was central to his appeal.


    Obama willfully and intentionally stayed clear of the race issue throughout most of his campaign. Seriously, man, your racist trolling is getting old.

  9. #409
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Smarter than what? That's the question, and I haven't seen an answer that satisfies me. Grades and degrees are measures, but there are other measures too. One really important one is whether one learns from errors. I haven't seen evidence that Obama has learned anything so far from his mistakes. In fact, he seems to be repeating them and demonstrating his hubris again and again. I mean, that's really nice that he's got a degree from Harvard Law. But does he know how to choose employees? Has he learned or demonstrated leadership?
    He has demonstrated a strong ability to inspire. As for his leadership capabilities, the jury is still out. It may be had he's decided to go the "hard lesson" route with the country, gambling that his first term difficulties will result in increased results from the team after the half-time rallying speech. Should his showing during this current campaign turn out to be as strong as it was in his first campaign, he stands a fair chance of having a great second term, with the Dems in control of both houses and, this time, willing to be more cooperative and proactive. It's the kind of strategy that plays up to our nations collective personality.
    Last edited by Just1Voice; 08-16-11 at 03:23 AM.

  10. #410
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Of course I'm smarter than Obama, he's American.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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