View Poll Results: Are you smarter than The Obama?

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  • I am smarter than The Obama

    14 36.84%
  • We're evn, or just about

    8 21.05%
  • The Obama is smarter than me.

    16 42.11%
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Thread: Are you smarter than The Obama?

  1. #91
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    I noticed we lost teamosil... he still owes me a source for his "average of 141 IQ".
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #92
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Oh sure, standardized tests definitely have a cultural bias. I imagine a standardized test in the US would use different analogies and examples than one in India and if students who take the test aren't from the culture in question, they'll likely do worse. But cultural bias is not what I was talking about. I was pointing to the fact that much of the success a student has when taking a standardized tests depends on his education. In other words, someone with an excellent education is, on average, going to do better than someone with a poor education. That's just a fact.

  3. #93
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    "The Obama" is very partisan and immature. However I do think that I am smarter than Obama.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  4. #94
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    "The Obama" is very partisan and immature. However I do think that I am smarter than Obama.
    did you graduate from an Ivy League Law school with highest honors?

  5. #95
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    did you graduate from an Ivy League Law school with highest honors?
    No, but I am a molecular biologist who works in cancer research. Not to brag, but I've got Obama beat when it comes to the sciences.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  6. #96
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Fact is, standardized tests from the LSAT to regular old IQ tests are the subject of a long standing debate of how well they measure "intelligence"
    Here's news for you:

    Geology is also subject to a long standing debate and there are people who think that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. The fact that lay-people uneducated in the particulars of psychometrics and intelligence are debating the issue of how reliable and valid IQ tests are as a measure of intelligence tells us as much about the question as the fact that Young Earth Creationists debate the age of the Earth tells us about the geologic "debate" on the age of the Earth.

    There is no debate on IQ tests any longer within the professions that study intelligence. The professionals who deal with these issues day in and day out, in all of the nitty-gritty details, are all on board and even those who have a philosophical axe to grind can't overcome the mountains of evidence which go against their philosophy.

    This whole dynamic was the subject of the 1988 book "The IQ Controversy, the Media and Public Policy ."

    Most significantly, the literate and informed public today is persuaded that the majority of experts in the field believe it is impossible to adequately define intelligence, that intelligence tests do not measure anything that is relevant to life performance... It appears from book reviews in popular journals and from newspaper and television coverage of IQ issues that such are the views of the vast majority of experts who study questions of intelligence and intelligence testing.

    The purpose of their survey was to challenge what they considered to be the media's portrayal of intelligence testing. Their study had three parts:[4]

    A questionnaire with 48 multiple choice questions sent to 1020 academics in 1984 (661 replies), reported in Snyderman & Rothman (1987)
    An analysis of all coverage of issues related to intelligence tests in major US print and television news sources (19691983) conducted by 9 trained graduate students
    An opinion poll of 207 journalists concerning their attitudes to intelligence and aptitude tests (119 replies); 86 editors of popular science magazines were also polled (50 replies)


    Respondents on average identified themselves as slightly left of center politically, but political and social opinions accounted for less than 10% of the variation in responses.

    Snyderman and Rothman discovered that experts were in agreement about the nature of intelligence.[6] "On the whole, scholars with any expertise in the area of intelligence and intelligence testing (defined very broadly) share a common view of the most important components of intelligence, and are convinced that it can be measured with some degree of accuracy." Almost all respondents picked out abstract reasoning, ability to solve problems and ability to acquire knowledge as the most important elements.

    Regarding the role of heritability of intelligence almost all (94%) felt that it played a substantial role.

    The role of genetics in the black-white IQ gap has been particularly controversial. The question regarding this in the survey asked "Which of the following best characterizes your opinion of the heritability of black-white differences in IQ?" Amongst the 661 returned questionnaires, 14% declined to answer the question, 24% voted that there was insufficient evidence to give an answer, 1% voted that the gap was "due entirely to genetic variation", 15% voted that it "due entirely to environmental variation" and 45% voted that it was a "product of genetic and environmental variation". According to Snyderman and Rothman, this contrasts greatly with the coverage of these views as represented in the media, where the reader is led to draw the conclusion that "only a few maverick 'experts' support the view that genetic variation plays a significant role in individual or group difference, while the vast majority of experts believe that such differences are purely the result of environmental factors."

    I didn't write that the LSAT was a test which strictly measured intelligence, I wrote that it's a good enough proxy for such a test. It gets it right in the broad strokes but because it's a proxy it will get muddled in the fine strokes.

  7. #97
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    He's a highly intelligent person. So am I. But I don't think we're intelligent in the same areas.

    There's academic intelligence, linguistic, mathematical, practical, intuitive, analytical, etc. A lot of ways to be smart. Very few people are equally intelligent in all of them. I'm certainly not, nor does it seem Obama is, although I suspect he may be a little more balanced than me.

    It's hard for me to judge this because I obviously don't know him and he's over twice my age which means his areas of intelligence are better solidified and practiced than mine. But he is obviously highly academic - something I actually struggle with. He doesn't seem to be as intuitive as I am, though. He also seems to be linguistically and analytically intelligent. Probably more than me in the latter category.

    Over-all, it's hard to say whether he's smarter than I am, but he is obviously more disciplined and intellectually developed than I am. In short, I don't think I'd struggle in a conversation with him, but I'd have a hard time doing a lot of the things he's done at this point in my life.

  8. #98
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    No, but I am a molecular biologist who works in cancer research. Not to brag, but I've got Obama beat when it comes to the sciences.
    This is another reason why I think intelligence is so difficult to measure - people can be very "intelligent" in completely different areas. I've known extraordinary scientific minds who could literally not comprehend a political theory or philosophical text and I've known creatively intelligent minds who could not function in a math class. And then I've known people who could do pretty much anything. I'm clearly ranting a bit and this is not necessarily just directed to you digsbe, but intelligence is very subjective and it's expression is dependent on many things including the passion one has for a subject.

  9. #99
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Oh sure, standardized tests definitely have a cultural bias.
    There we go... you don't disappoint!

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I imagine a standardized test in the US would use different analogies and examples than one in India and if students who take the test aren't from the culture in question, they'll likely do worse.
    What culture do 2nd, 3rd generation African American's have other than American culture?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I was pointing to the fact that much of the success a student has when taking a standardized tests depends on his education. In other words, someone with an excellent education is, on average, going to do better than someone with a poor education. That's just a fact.
    I thought that was the whole point of the standardized test - to identify the retention and educational level of the student. Isn't that the whole point?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  10. #100
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    Re: Are you smarter than The Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Were you seriously putting forth the hypothesis that those who scored higher on the LSAT were not measurably different in intelligence from those who scored lower and that those who scored in the highest percentiles were no different in terms of intelligence range than those who scored abysmally? Really? Is that what you were proposing?
    Yes, actually i am... sure there are some that were not smart enough to make it higher, but i don't think that is the majority... when we are talking average and above average ranges. It really has to do with drive and whether you are a good test taker or not, whether you need more time to be efficient ( speed isn't necessarily a measure of intelligence either) and to some when they are restricted to a time limit have to downgrade their efficiency.
    Drive is one of the qualities that stand out the most, not intelligence. Sure there are those random people that are lazy and don't study or do anything and manage to get perfect scores, but that's definitely not the majority. Most people have to work and study really hard... and those that don't do that as much generally won't do as well. Those that have more drive do better on intelligence test's and comprehension.

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