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Thread: Does a person who entertained succession from the country deserve to be president?

  1. #31
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    Re: Does a person who entertained succession from the country deserve to be president

    I don't like Perry, but states should have the right to secede and do.
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    Re: Does a person who entertained succession from the country deserve to be president

    Quote Originally Posted by peepnklown View Post
    @repeter
    Wait, are you saying that secession is un-American?
    Secession from the American Union is unAmerican. If a state wants to try it, it is an illegitimate attempt to leave, is only entering a state of rebellion, and should be treated as you would treat any rebellious group. Leaving the Union is not an option. If a state tries it, I'm all for a reenactment of the Civil War, with no mercy for their leaders.
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    Re: Does a person who entertained succession from the country deserve to be president

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Secession from the American Union is unAmerican. If a state wants to try it, it is an illegitimate attempt to leave, is only entering a state of rebellion, and should be treated as you would treat any rebellious group. Leaving the Union is not an option. If a state tries it, I'm all for a reenactment of the Civil War, with no mercy for their leaders.
    If you ask me we had too much mercy on the leaders of the last rebellion.

  4. #34
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    Re: Does a person who entertained succession from the country deserve to be president

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Neither is succession.
    History and American law both beg to differ:

    The Avalon Project : President Jackson's Proclamation Regarding Nullification, December 10, 1832

    Because the Union was formed by compact, it is said the parties to that compact may, when they feel themselves aggrieved, depart from it; but it is precisely because it is a compact that they cannot. A compact is an agreement or binding obligation. It may by its terms have a sanction or penalty for its breach, or it may not. If it contains no sanction, it may be broken with no other consequence than moral guilt; if it have a sanction, then the breach incurs the designated or implied penalty. A league between independent nations, generally, has no sanction other than a moral one; or if it should contain a penalty, as there is no common superior, it cannot be enforced. A government, on the contrary, always has a sanction, express or implied; and, in our case, it is both necessarily implied and expressly given. An attempt by force of arms to destroy a government is an offense, by whatever means the constitutional compact may have been formed; and such government has the right, by the law of self-defense, to pass acts for punishing the offender, unless that right is modified, restrained, or resumed by the constitutional act. In our system, although it is modified in the case of treason, yet authority is expressly given to pass all laws necessary to carry its powers into effect, and under this grant provision has been made for punishing acts which obstruct the due administration of the laws.
    In essence, secession is a breach of the legally binding contract that is the Constitution. The attempt to breach that contract by taking up arms and declaring part of American soil to be your own is an attack on the republic itself and furthermore: treason.

    PS: And it's SECESSION. People have been using the wrong word for about 4 pages and it's a little annoying.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 08-16-11 at 02:58 PM.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Does a person who entertained succession from the country deserve to be president

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    I don't like Perry, but states should have the right to secede and do.
    No they don't. Does history mean nothing to you people? There was something that happened between 1861-1865 that settled the question.

    If states could secede anytime they got kind of mad, how big do you think the Union would be today? It would be the Confederation of New York and New Jersey, if that. Saying states have the right to secede changes this from the UNITED States of America to the "Kinda sorta Confederated States of America, depending on how the Governor of North Carolina feels about the whole thing today."
    Last edited by rocket88; 08-16-11 at 04:00 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  6. #36
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    Re: Does a person who entertained succession from the country deserve to be president

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    History and American law both beg to differ:

    The Avalon Project : President Jackson's Proclamation Regarding Nullification, December 10, 1832



    In essence, secession is a breach of the legally binding contract that is the Constitution. The attempt to breach that contract by taking up arms and declaring part of American soil to be your own is an attack on the republic itself and furthermore: treason.

    PS: And it's SECESSION. People have been using the wrong word for about 4 pages and it's a little annoying.
    Oh noes!!!! I put an extra c in the word, clearly that means you're right

    I know the futility of trying to confront you with actual facts but I'll post this anyway;

    "Discussions and threats of secession have often surfaced in American politics, but only in the case of the Confederate States of America was secession actually declared. A 2008 Zogby International poll revealed that 22% of Americans believe that "any state or region has the right to peaceably secede and become an independent republic."[32][33] The United States Supreme Court ruled in Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869) that unilateral secession was unconstitutional while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession.[34][35]"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession#United_States

    Read the Declaration of Independence sometime. There's always been an understanding that it is quite possible for a government to lose the consent of the governed. This country was founded on revolution. It's a little funny to me that people who would never criticize Jane Fonda's activities during Vietnam will accuse Rick Perry of treason simply because he's conservative.
    Last edited by X Factor; 08-16-11 at 07:20 PM.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Does a person who entertained succession from the country deserve to be president

    As Governor of Texas, he took an oath of loyalty to the United States. It is a requirement for the office. So he was publicly entertaining treason, no matter how you interpret the US Constitution concerning a states right to secede.

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    Re: Does a person who entertained succession from the country deserve to be president

    If Perry took an oath to defend and uphold the Constitution, wouldn't that actually mean he should oppose those who act without Constitutional authority? Hummmm, interesting question.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Does a person who entertained succession from the country deserve to be president

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    If Perry took an oath to defend and uphold the Constitution, wouldn't that actually mean he should oppose those who act without Constitutional authority? Hummmm, interesting question.
    Well it would certainly make this whole "Is secession constitutional" argument a lot more relevant, that is for certain. Maybe someone who cares ought to look it up.

  10. #40
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    Re: Does a person who entertained succession from the country deserve to be president

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    I like Perry. He hates BO almost as much as I do. And if he doesn't win, Texas is soo outtta here. Will you really miss us? Fear us, yeah. But miss us?
    Texas is waiting for the outcome of the 2012 election to see if they secede? Perry wasn't even in the race 2 weeks ago, and now the Union depends on him winning?

    That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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