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Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

Who benefits the most?

  • Rich.

    Votes: 29 78.4%
  • Poor.

    Votes: 8 21.6%

  • Total voters
    37
So turtle...do you think veterans getting military disablity are parasites too ? do you think career military with 30 yrs shouldnt get a govt a pension ?

never said that. I just tire of trade school enlistees acting like everyone else ought to pay more taxes.

you have never provided any evidence that you are on a military disability or a 30 year careerist

I noted in other threads that such people deserve the benefit of whatever contract they entered
 
Have any proof of that ? one of your favorite lines I believe

you are getting ridiculous. I merely noted what I said
 
Thats not proof thats just a right wing propaganda teaparty whining site...

I figured you couldn't handle the truth, those are IRS statistics
 
actually I think it's the other way around, if anything, it is your concept of "fair" does not have any "rational relationship to reality"

feel free to post something that is more rational
 
never said that. I just tire of trade school enlistees acting like everyone else ought to pay more taxes.

you have never provided any evidence that you are on a military disability or a 30 year careerist

I noted in other threads that such people deserve the benefit of whatever contract they entered

Im neither and I never claimed to be...i am not on a disability nor was I career military...I am a veteran...
 
feel free to post something that is more rational

be my guest .. show me how its done TurtleDude .. show me a rational argument for your case that states that according to traditional values/ethics (i.e. the ones that all religions and most philosophies support ... why would so many religions and philosophies come up with the exact same tenants? this may be a good question to ask yourself), being tyrannical is justified .. I dare you .. :)
 
Im neither and I never claimed to be...i am not on a disability nor was I career military...I am a veteran...

draftee or enlisted
 
be my guest .. show me how its done TurtleDude .. show me a rational argument for your case that states that according to traditional values/ethics (i.e. the ones that all religions and most philosophies support ... why would so many religions and philosophies come of with the exact same tenants? this may be a good question to ask yourself), being tyrannical is justified .. I dare you .. :)



I showed that the rich pay a far higher share of the tax burden than their share of the income while almost every other group and everyone in the bottom 95% pay less of the tax burden than their share of the income

in other words the group that pays MORE OF THE TAX BURDEN Than their share of the income are the ones people like you are claiming are not paying their fair share which is patently insane

The Tax Foundation - The Facts Contradict Obama's Calls for Higher Taxes on the Rich and Corporations



Recently released IRS data for 2009, shows that taxpayers earning over $200,000 paid 50 percent of the $866 billion in total income taxes paid that year, or $434 billion. Skeptics will say, "That's because they earn the majority of the income in America. Not so. These taxpayers earned 25 percent of the $7.6 trillion in total adjusted gross income in the country that year.
 
Im neither and I never claimed to be...i am not on a disability nor was I career military...I am a veteran...

So you think trade school graduates are scumbags ? you mean the people that fix the richs air conditioners so their soft mushy bodies dont get over heated, you mean the plumbers that put your bathroom and kitchen in when your house was built so you dont have to use an outhouse...you mean the people that BUILT YOUR house and your office...Oh i know..you mean all the men that you cant hold a candle next to physically lol...talk about ranting...your the queen of ranting and whining lol....Oh those guys paid into social security all their lives too...
 
Well, I'd say you are an intelligent person from reading your posts and absolute freedom (aka anarchy) is a myth .. it has never existed, nor can it .. people will always govern themselves. So, I am saying that you have a set of freedoms, liberties and rights that you value and call "freedom" - this is to say that everyone's idea of "freedom" is subject and thus different. The correct term would be something like a government system that only governs the things you think it should.

I thank you for the explanation. I believe you can have anarchy, but that has never been something that I have sought. With freedom comes responsibility and government. Freedom includes not taking things away unless they are agreed upon as immoral, i.e. sterilization, polygamy, etc. If you wish to call that loosely, that's fine by me.
 
So you think trade school graduates are scumbags ? you mean the people that fix the richs air conditioners so their soft mushy bodies dont get over heated, you mean the plumbers that put your bathroom and kitchen in when your house was built so you dont have to use an outhouse...you mean the people that BUILT YOUR house and your office...Oh i know..you mean all the men that you cant hold a candle next to physically lol...talk about ranting...your the queen of ranting and whining lol....Oh those guys paid into social security all their lives too...

you are ranting at your own post dude.

your working class hero act is falling apart
 
I thank you for the explanation. I believe you can have anarchy, but that has never been something that I have sought. With freedom comes responsibility and government. Freedom includes not taking things away unless they are agreed upon as immoral, i.e. sterilization, polygamy, etc. If you wish to call that loosely, that's fine by me.

Lets compromise and call it "your definition of freedom" versus "my definition of freedom" (which we have, in past posts, found are more similar than we may have thought) - still each man's version of "freedom" is loosely defined and quite subjective
 
Lets compromise and call it "your definition of freedom" versus "my definition of freedom" (which we have, in past posts, found are more similar than we may have thought) - still each man's version of "freedom" is loosely defined and quite subjective

Well, when it comes to who wins or loses with regards to government, I'll stick with both the rich and the poor and that neither should win and only be guaranteed freedom.
 
And you want a government that punishes those you don't like by confiscating wealth and giving it to others?

Although it's true that I don't like you, and few things would give me more pleasure than to see you end up destitute because the government confiscated your wealth, that is not really what I'm looking for in a government as a matter of policy.

Why should I support government functions that punish me and provide me no benefits?

Because that's the price you pay to live in a society that provides you with the opportunity to become successful. Think of it as rent you pay to live here in this country.

welfare socialism is a scheme by which those who are rich through public office use my and other net taxpayers' wealth to buy votes of those who feed off the government tit

Libertarianism is a scheme by which those who are rich use their own wealth to buy votes of those who don't know any better.
 
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you can spew that crap till the cows fly but its crap. Pure and simple its crap. Your silly rants about contracts are idiotic. If the police did not take the car away from you, then the rich owner would hire some guy to put an icepick through your ear. That's how things worked before we had modern courts and law enforcement. The courts and law enforcement help the poor far more than you think.
We've always had modern courts as long as we've had capitalism. Find me a capitlaist nation that has not had something similar to our modern courts. Capitalism cannot exist without the state and your argument that it can is idiotic. Secondly the workers far outnumber the rich. If it wasn't for the state to protect them than the workers could easily rise up and take over the factories,stores, etc. and the owners could do nothing about it. Oh and as to your ice pick example, the guy who doesn't want to pay for his car could just as kill the dealership owner before he sends a thug after him.
 
I showed that the rich pay a far higher share of the tax burden than their share of the income while almost every other group and everyone in the bottom 95% pay less of the tax burden than their share of the income

in other words the group that pays MORE OF THE TAX BURDEN Than their share of the income are the ones people like you are claiming are not paying their fair share which is patently insane

The Tax Foundation - The Facts Contradict Obama's Calls for Higher Taxes on the Rich and Corporations



Recently released IRS data for 2009, shows that taxpayers earning over $200,000 paid 50 percent of the $866 billion in total income taxes paid that year, or $434 billion. Skeptics will say, "That's because they earn the majority of the income in America. Not so. These taxpayers earned 25 percent of the $7.6 trillion in total adjusted gross income in the country that year.

Were is the nugget of ethical argument again? That's what I was asking for .. see what I originally dared you to argue ..
 
Although it's true that I don't like you, and few things would give me more pleasure than to see you end up destitute because the government confiscated your wealth, that is not really what I'm looking for in a government as a matter of policy.



Because that's the price you pay to live in a society that provides you with the opportunity to become successful. Think of it as rent you pay to live here in this country.



Libertarianism is a scheme by which those who are rich use their own wealth to buy votes of those who don't know any better.

that sort of hate of yours is interesting.

I don't have any feelings for you one way or another. You don't matter enough to me either way. but if you worked for me I'd fire you just because I could:lamo
 
Were is the nugget of ethical argument again? That's what I was asking for .. see what I originally dared you to argue ..

I am still waiting for you to an attempt an objective and rational argument for your specious and unsupportable claim that the rich don't pay their fair share
 
I am still waiting for you to an attempt an objective and rational argument for your specious and unsupportable claim that the rich don't pay their fair share

Ah, you don't have an ethical argument, I see ..
 
Ah, you don't have an ethical argument, I see ..

Its not ethical to claim that the one group who pays more of the income tax burden than their share of the income is not paying their fair share

still waiting
 
Nobody benefits from big government. As long as there's a government that is hell bent on making more poor people, then poor people will never be able to improve their lives.

That is a load of crap! And I can flip this on you to say as long as the rich (read government )are hell bent on keeping the rich rich while not giving a care about the poor? The rich will keep getting rich while the poor will keep hoping that these same people toss them a damn chicken leg every now and again.
 
you are ranting at your own post dude.

your working class hero act is falling apart


Wont work...heres what you said quote

Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
never said that. I just tire of trade school enlistees acting like everyone else ought to pay more taxes.

you have never provided any evidence that you are on a military disability or a 30 year careerist

I noted in other threads that such people deserve the benefit of whatever contract they entered


YOUR tired of trade school enlistees? you and most of the other rich slouchs couldnt live with out tradesmen...collectively the rich couldnt build themselves a doll house out of popsycle sticks...lol...you throw out so much of your seething hateful trash about the working class you forget what you say...

BTW youve never showed any evidence your a lawyer...even though you create fairy tales like one
 
Its not ethical to claim that the one group who pays more of the income tax burden than their share of the income is not paying their fair share

still waiting

You would have a point if they REALLY did. They do not and we have talked about this before.
 
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