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Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

Who benefits the most?

  • Rich.

    Votes: 29 78.4%
  • Poor.

    Votes: 8 21.6%

  • Total voters
    37
If you define government to mean the ability to protect one's assets even with private armies you might have a point

Its called feudalism and there was much more to it than that, such as institutionalized rape, serfdom which is a form of slavery, conscription, etc.
 
from anarchy to a libertarian state perhaps. Once we get to welfare socialism as we have now its the poor who benefit.

So in other words, you favor a government precisely large enough to perform the functions that benefit YOU, but not large enough to help anyone else. How classy.
 
So in other words, you favor a government precisely large enough to perform the functions that benefit YOU, but not large enough to help anyone else. How classy.

And you want a government that punishes those you don't like by confiscating wealth and giving it to others?

Why should I support government functions that punish me and provide me no benefits? welfare socialism is a scheme by which those who are rich through public office use my and other net taxpayers' wealth to buy votes of those who feed off the government tit
 
And you want a government that punishes those you don't like by confiscating wealth and giving it to others?

Why should I support government functions that punish me and provide me no benefits? welfare socialism is a scheme by which those who are rich through public office use my and other net taxpayers' wealth to buy votes of those who feed off the government tit

People tend to go about government in one of two ways
1. What is best for me
2. What is best for everyone

I prefer the second approach.
 
And you want a government that punishes those you don't like by confiscating wealth and giving it to others?

Why should I support government functions that punish me and provide me no benefits? welfare socialism is a scheme by which those who are rich through public office use my and other net taxpayers' wealth to buy votes of those who feed off the government tit
Even if the government was taxing you at 90% or higher, you would still get the benefits of protection of private property and enforcement of contracts. Those are necessary for you to accumulate wealth and they are impossible without the government. So tell me how you are getting no benefits?
 
People tend to go about government in one of two ways
1. What is best for me
2. What is best for everyone

I prefer the second approach.


most lefties (not saying you but most) pretend that their way is the best for most. I don't buy that
 
most lefties (not saying you but most) pretend that their way is the best for most. I don't buy that

What data do you derive this statement from?
 
Even if the government was taxing you at 90% or higher, you would still get the benefits of protection of private property and enforcement of contracts. Those are necessary for you to accumulate wealth and they are impossible without the government. So tell me how you are getting no benefits?

that is like saying if you have to spend half your life in prison you still have freedom half the time

I am getting absolutely no additional benefits for paying far far more of the tax load than 99% of the population

You socialists always use From each according to their ability and never ever consider the value received

you labor under the delusion that people are rich because the GOVERNMENT has somehow given them some extra benefits
 
What data do you derive this statement from?

I see it all the time here. making people dependent on an every growing government makes things better for those who run government
 
I see it all the time here. making people dependent on an every growing government makes things better for those who run government

So people here are saying "I want government to grow to make people dependent, so that politicians can have more power?"
 
that is like saying if you have to spend half your life in prison you still have freedom half the time

I am getting absolutely no additional benefits for paying far far more of the tax load than 99% of the population

You socialists always use From each according to their ability and never ever consider the value received

you labor under the delusion that people are rich because the GOVERNMENT has somehow given them some extra benefits
The fact remains that you owe every penny you own to the government because of the services they provide. Without the government to protect your private property you would see actual socialism here very quickly. However, luckily for you the the government by use of its police powers protects your "right" to own private property and exploit others.
 
So people here are saying "I want government to grow to make people dependent, so that politicians can have more power?"

not the useful fools who vote for those who feel that way
 
not the useful fools who vote for those who feel that way

I am just curious where the people on the forum who make these sorts of statements are.
 
The fact remains that you owe every penny you own to the government because of the services they provide. Without the government to protect your private property you would see actual socialism here very quickly. However, luckily for you the the government by use of its police powers protects your "right" to own private property and exploit others.

that's as moronic as saying the Rhodes Scholar owes his scholarship to his college or the professional athlete owes his 15 million dollar signing bonus to the UCLA athletic department

what extra do I get that you do not?

Your moronic claim that I exploit others demonstrates what truly motivates the malignant scourge of socialism
 
that's as moronic as saying the Rhodes Scholar owes his scholarship to his college or the professional athlete owes his 15 million dollar signing bonus to the UCLA athletic department

what extra do I get that you do not?

Your moronic claim that I exploit others demonstrates what truly motivates the malignant scourge of socialism
Let me make this clear. You would not have the ability to produce wealth if it were not for the government. It is as simple as that. Capitalism requires the government to support itself. It requires the police and courts to protect the rights of private property. It requires the government to enforce contracts. Your whole system is built upon government power, without that power your system crumbles.
 
Let me make this clear. You would not have the ability to produce wealth if it were not for the government. It is as simple as that. Capitalism requires the government to support itself. It requires the police and courts to protect the rights of private property. It requires the government to enforce contracts. Your whole system is built upon government power, without that power your system crumbles.

that is not an argument in favor of making some pay tons for government and many others pay nothing

should the A student pay for his own tuition as well as that of 30 D students and 10 C students and 5 B students?
 
that is not an argument in favor of making some pay tons for government and many others pay nothing

should the A student pay for his own tuition as well as that of 30 D students and 10 C students and 5 B students?
Student A does not get any more benefits than the other students. The education they receive is the same. However, the rich do in fact get far more benefits from the government than the poor do. That is why the rich should pay more, they benefit more.
 
You did say the rich did fine all over Europe. However, if you want to expand it to different continents feel free too. There has never been anarchy, there has always been some form of government whether it was a tribal system or something else. Secondly, we are discussing the rich under our current economic system which is capitalism. Under capitalism the rich require the state to protect their private property and enforce contracts.

This is a good point ... I don't think people really understand what the term "government" refers to and what it's root word is. I have also heard different people talk about anarchism as a form of government, but the original meaning of the word anarchy was "no government"; "no government" is of course not possible and a myth made up for political purposes. As you so aptly pointed out, even tribes govern themselves.
 
Student A does not get any more benefits than the other students. The education they receive is the same. However, the rich do in fact get far more benefits from the government than the poor do. That is why the rich should pay more, they benefit more.

excellent

and I don't get any additional benefits from the government so stop the silly charade.
 
Please explain what you mean as I do not understand your question.

Well, I'd say you are an intelligent person from reading your posts and absolute freedom (aka anarchy) is a myth .. it has never existed, nor can it .. people will always govern themselves. So, I am saying that you have a set of freedoms, liberties and rights that you value and call "freedom" - this is to say that everyone's idea of "freedom" is subject and thus different. The correct term would be something like a government system that only governs the things you think it should.
 
that is like saying if you have to spend half your life in prison you still have freedom half the time

I am getting absolutely no additional benefits for paying far far more of the tax load than 99% of the population

You socialists always use From each according to their ability and never ever consider the value received

you labor under the delusion that people are rich because the GOVERNMENT has somehow given them some extra benefits

If you actually pay more taxes than 99% of the population .. you must be very wealthy indeed ... which leads me to ask ... what exactly has you so angered? what exactly is it that you could possibly buy that would bring you more happiness? Your anger must be derived from some want to buy more things to make you happy as if it were not, you would not be supporting government supported tyranny by a few (the wealthiest) over many (the majority of the population). As it has been well supported throughout this thread, the government already spends massive amounts of money in order to enable people to accumulate much, much more wealth than they need and much more than most could possibly even conceive if it weren't for the government system that supports it ... just some thoughts
 
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excellent

and I don't get any additional benefits from the government so stop the silly charade.
The rich do get more benefits. What do you think would happen if a group of workers decided to take over a Ford plant? The cops would come in and arrest them and return the plant to it's owner. That is how the rich benefit. They benefit from protection of their private property rights. What if I signed a contract with to leash a new car and a few months down the line quit making my payments? The police would take the car away from me and return it to the dealership. The rich benefit from the enforcement of contract. The poor and workers do not benefit from either of these things. So, how can you tell me the rich do not get more benefits?
 
If you actually pay more taxes than 99% of the population .. you must be very wealthy indeed ... which leads me to ask ... what exactly has you so angered? what exactly is it that you could possibly buy that would bring you more happiness? just some thoughts

OH I am very happy but I see this country going down the toilet mainly due to politicians who need to spend more and more to buy the votes of the many.

what would make me happier

1) courts that actually enforce the tenth amendment

2) a tax system that does not encourage the many to want more and more spending that they don't have to pay for.
 
The rich do get more benefits. What do you think would happen if a group of workers decided to take over a Ford plant? The cops would come in and arrest them and return the plant to it's owner. That is how the rich benefit. They benefit from protection of their private property rights. What if I signed a contract with to leash a new car and a few months down the line quit making my payments? The police would take the car away from me and return it to the dealership. The rich benefit from the enforcement of contract. The poor and workers do not benefit from either of these things. So, how can you tell me the rich do not get more benefits?

you can spew that crap till the cows fly but its crap. Pure and simple its crap. Your silly rants about contracts are idiotic. If the police did not take the car away from you, then the rich owner would hire some guy to put an icepick through your ear. That's how things worked before we had modern courts and law enforcement. The courts and law enforcement help the poor far more than you think.
 
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