View Poll Results: Who benefits the most?

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  • Rich.

    35 32.11%
  • Poor.

    74 67.89%
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Thread: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

  1. #41
    Educator U.S. Socialist.'s Avatar
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that's as moronic as saying the Rhodes Scholar owes his scholarship to his college or the professional athlete owes his 15 million dollar signing bonus to the UCLA athletic department

    what extra do I get that you do not?

    Your moronic claim that I exploit others demonstrates what truly motivates the malignant scourge of socialism
    Let me make this clear. You would not have the ability to produce wealth if it were not for the government. It is as simple as that. Capitalism requires the government to support itself. It requires the police and courts to protect the rights of private property. It requires the government to enforce contracts. Your whole system is built upon government power, without that power your system crumbles.

  2. #42
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    Let me make this clear. You would not have the ability to produce wealth if it were not for the government. It is as simple as that. Capitalism requires the government to support itself. It requires the police and courts to protect the rights of private property. It requires the government to enforce contracts. Your whole system is built upon government power, without that power your system crumbles.
    that is not an argument in favor of making some pay tons for government and many others pay nothing

    should the A student pay for his own tuition as well as that of 30 D students and 10 C students and 5 B students?



  3. #43
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is not an argument in favor of making some pay tons for government and many others pay nothing

    should the A student pay for his own tuition as well as that of 30 D students and 10 C students and 5 B students?
    Student A does not get any more benefits than the other students. The education they receive is the same. However, the rich do in fact get far more benefits from the government than the poor do. That is why the rich should pay more, they benefit more.

  4. #44
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    You did say the rich did fine all over Europe. However, if you want to expand it to different continents feel free too. There has never been anarchy, there has always been some form of government whether it was a tribal system or something else. Secondly, we are discussing the rich under our current economic system which is capitalism. Under capitalism the rich require the state to protect their private property and enforce contracts.
    This is a good point ... I don't think people really understand what the term "government" refers to and what it's root word is. I have also heard different people talk about anarchism as a form of government, but the original meaning of the word anarchy was "no government"; "no government" is of course not possible and a myth made up for political purposes. As you so aptly pointed out, even tribes govern themselves.

  5. #45
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    Student A does not get any more benefits than the other students. The education they receive is the same. However, the rich do in fact get far more benefits from the government than the poor do. That is why the rich should pay more, they benefit more.
    excellent

    and I don't get any additional benefits from the government so stop the silly charade.



  6. #46
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Please explain what you mean as I do not understand your question.
    Well, I'd say you are an intelligent person from reading your posts and absolute freedom (aka anarchy) is a myth .. it has never existed, nor can it .. people will always govern themselves. So, I am saying that you have a set of freedoms, liberties and rights that you value and call "freedom" - this is to say that everyone's idea of "freedom" is subject and thus different. The correct term would be something like a government system that only governs the things you think it should.

  7. #47
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is like saying if you have to spend half your life in prison you still have freedom half the time

    I am getting absolutely no additional benefits for paying far far more of the tax load than 99% of the population

    You socialists always use From each according to their ability and never ever consider the value received

    you labor under the delusion that people are rich because the GOVERNMENT has somehow given them some extra benefits
    If you actually pay more taxes than 99% of the population .. you must be very wealthy indeed ... which leads me to ask ... what exactly has you so angered? what exactly is it that you could possibly buy that would bring you more happiness? Your anger must be derived from some want to buy more things to make you happy as if it were not, you would not be supporting government supported tyranny by a few (the wealthiest) over many (the majority of the population). As it has been well supported throughout this thread, the government already spends massive amounts of money in order to enable people to accumulate much, much more wealth than they need and much more than most could possibly even conceive if it weren't for the government system that supports it ... just some thoughts
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 08-13-11 at 10:14 PM.

  8. #48
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    excellent

    and I don't get any additional benefits from the government so stop the silly charade.
    The rich do get more benefits. What do you think would happen if a group of workers decided to take over a Ford plant? The cops would come in and arrest them and return the plant to it's owner. That is how the rich benefit. They benefit from protection of their private property rights. What if I signed a contract with to leash a new car and a few months down the line quit making my payments? The police would take the car away from me and return it to the dealership. The rich benefit from the enforcement of contract. The poor and workers do not benefit from either of these things. So, how can you tell me the rich do not get more benefits?

  9. #49
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    If you actually pay more taxes than 99% of the population .. you must be very wealthy indeed ... which leads me to ask ... what exactly has you so angered? what exactly is it that you could possibly buy that would bring you more happiness? just some thoughts
    OH I am very happy but I see this country going down the toilet mainly due to politicians who need to spend more and more to buy the votes of the many.

    what would make me happier

    1) courts that actually enforce the tenth amendment

    2) a tax system that does not encourage the many to want more and more spending that they don't have to pay for.



  10. #50
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    The rich do get more benefits. What do you think would happen if a group of workers decided to take over a Ford plant? The cops would come in and arrest them and return the plant to it's owner. That is how the rich benefit. They benefit from protection of their private property rights. What if I signed a contract with to leash a new car and a few months down the line quit making my payments? The police would take the car away from me and return it to the dealership. The rich benefit from the enforcement of contract. The poor and workers do not benefit from either of these things. So, how can you tell me the rich do not get more benefits?
    you can spew that crap till the cows fly but its crap. Pure and simple its crap. Your silly rants about contracts are idiotic. If the police did not take the car away from you, then the rich owner would hire some guy to put an icepick through your ear. That's how things worked before we had modern courts and law enforcement. The courts and law enforcement help the poor far more than you think.



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