View Poll Results: Who benefits the most?

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  • Rich.

    35 32.11%
  • Poor.

    74 67.89%
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Thread: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

  1. #21
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    So what you're saying is that those who pay for campaigns chose people who chose welfare socialism.

    So it would appear it was the uber-wealthy after all.


    a system where everyone can vote is going to result in a system where those who become rich by having public office create incentives to buy the votes of those who don't pay much if any taxes



  2. #22
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    Virtual anarchy? What are you talking about? There was never anarchy in Europe. Do you mean the Feudal states ruled by lords and kings? Are you talking about the various democracies that eventually arose in the U.S. and Europe? The government still existed then and provided the services I listed. The fact remains you can't have capitalism without a government to protect private property and enforce contract rights. Give me an example anarchy in Europe. You won't find it, because it has never existed and it certainly hasn't existed during the same time as capitalism, because it is impossible. Capitalism requires the state.
    Where did I limit my discussion to Europe?



  3. #23
    Educator U.S. Socialist.'s Avatar
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Where did I limit my discussion to Europe?
    You did say the rich did fine all over Europe. However, if you want to expand it to different continents feel free too. There has never been anarchy, there has always been some form of government whether it was a tribal system or something else. Secondly, we are discussing the rich under our current economic system which is capitalism. Under capitalism the rich require the state to protect their private property and enforce contracts.

  4. #24
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    You did say the rich did fine all over Europe. However, if you want to expand it to different continents feel free too. There has never been anarchy, there has always been some form of government whether it was a tribal system or something else. Secondly, we are discussing the rich under our current economic system which is capitalism. Under capitalism the rich require the state to protect their private property and enforce contracts.
    If you define government to mean the ability to protect one's assets even with private armies you might have a point



  5. #25
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If you define government to mean the ability to protect one's assets even with private armies you might have a point

    Rome did much more than that. Like bring sanitation to the cities. Roads for commerce.

  6. #26
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If you define government to mean the ability to protect one's assets even with private armies you might have a point
    Its called feudalism and there was much more to it than that, such as institutionalized rape, serfdom which is a form of slavery, conscription, etc.

  7. #27
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    from anarchy to a libertarian state perhaps. Once we get to welfare socialism as we have now its the poor who benefit.
    So in other words, you favor a government precisely large enough to perform the functions that benefit YOU, but not large enough to help anyone else. How classy.
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  8. #28
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So in other words, you favor a government precisely large enough to perform the functions that benefit YOU, but not large enough to help anyone else. How classy.
    And you want a government that punishes those you don't like by confiscating wealth and giving it to others?

    Why should I support government functions that punish me and provide me no benefits? welfare socialism is a scheme by which those who are rich through public office use my and other net taxpayers' wealth to buy votes of those who feed off the government tit



  9. #29
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    And you want a government that punishes those you don't like by confiscating wealth and giving it to others?

    Why should I support government functions that punish me and provide me no benefits? welfare socialism is a scheme by which those who are rich through public office use my and other net taxpayers' wealth to buy votes of those who feed off the government tit
    People tend to go about government in one of two ways
    1. What is best for me
    2. What is best for everyone

    I prefer the second approach.

  10. #30
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    And you want a government that punishes those you don't like by confiscating wealth and giving it to others?

    Why should I support government functions that punish me and provide me no benefits? welfare socialism is a scheme by which those who are rich through public office use my and other net taxpayers' wealth to buy votes of those who feed off the government tit
    Even if the government was taxing you at 90% or higher, you would still get the benefits of protection of private property and enforcement of contracts. Those are necessary for you to accumulate wealth and they are impossible without the government. So tell me how you are getting no benefits?

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