View Poll Results: Who benefits the most?

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  • Rich.

    35 32.11%
  • Poor.

    74 67.89%
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Thread: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

  1. #241
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    LOL! Is that evidence in the "court" of Turtledude??? How about we break down each government service and determine who derives the most benefit. We can start with the military and wars. The military and wars are to protect the nations wealth.
    The military is to protect the people. Your argument fails.

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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The problem and what I have been getting at is he came up with a new term to just talk about communism to further the idea it protects liberty when it doesn't. That is why I said they are just communists because frankly they are.
    First of all, if you're going to argue that it's the case that he came up with the term "Just" to talk about communism to further the idea that it protects liberty, you're going to have to back that up with some actual documentation. If you can't provide such documentation, I'm going to have to assume that you believe that's the case for bull**** ideological reasons. Either way, this would have no bearing on any substantive political-philosophic claims that he might have (and with which I probably don't agree).

    Second of all, this still has no bearing on my underlying contention that the concept of anarcho-libertarianism, or social libertarianism, is a real thing, and has a meaning that is wildly distinguishable from the modern term libertarianism.

  3. #243
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The military is to protect the people. Your argument fails.
    Correction, the military used to be to protect the people. If we cut the wasteful spending on it in half, perhaps we can get back to that point.
    Especially considering the rich no longer pay their share of the cost.

    You want to cut the size of government, cut military spending in half, saving $350 billion dollars a year.

    Iraq was of no threat to us, yet the party that represents the rich voted for the war. Let them pay for it. I sure as hell am not!
    Last edited by Catawba; 08-18-11 at 02:14 AM.
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  4. #244
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    LOL! Is that evidence in the "court" of Turtledude??? How about we break down each government service and determine who derives the most benefit. We can start with the military and wars. The military and wars are to protect the nations wealth. The Rich own 80% of the wealth in the country, so their share of costs for the military and wars is 80%
    Since the wealthiest the top 10 percent pay 68 percent of taxes, and the lowest 50% pay little or no income tax at all, and yet all the welfare, it seems to me that most of the benefits go to the poor.

    I believe everyone benefits equally from the Military protecting all our Security not the wealth.

    But that is my opinion, but it is based on what I have been able to find out about who pays what % of Taxes.

  5. #245
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Since the wealthiest the top 10 percent pay 68 percent of taxes, and the lowest 50% pay little or no income tax at all, and yet all the welfare, it seems to me that most of the benefits go to the poor.
    The top ten percent pay a lesser percentage of their income in taxes than their percentage of the nations wealth. Thanks to 3 decades of 30 years of trickle down economics, 1 in 7 Americans are poor, millions more on unemployment and seniors barely getting by, there's your 50 %. They are ones you want to pay for your wars to protect the rich's wealth. You got to be ****ing kidding me!

    I believe everyone benefits equally from the Military protecting all our Security not the wealth.
    The GOP voted for the optional war in Iraq, let them eliminate their clients tax cuts to pay for it.

    But that is my opinion, but it is based on what I have been able to find out about who pays what % of Taxes.
    You need some perspective, look at what taxes used to be when they were progressive, back before 3 decades of failed trickle down economics.
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    LOL! Is that evidence in the "court" of Turtledude??? How about we break down each government service and determine who derives the most benefit. We can start with the military and wars. The military and wars are to protect the nations wealth. The Rich own 80% of the wealth in the country, so their share of costs for the military and wars is 80%
    The fact is catawba --you are constantly whining about the rich and demanding they pay more taxes. You constantly whine about the plight of the poor and who their lot is due to the predatory actions of the rich. You also want more government. The only logical conclusion of your position is that you see government as helping the poor and lower middle class and hurting the rich.



  7. #247
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The top ten percent pay a lesser percentage of their income in taxes than their percentage of the nations wealth. Thanks to 3 decades of 30 years of trickle down economics, 1 in 7 Americans are poor, millions more on unemployment and seniors barely getting by, there's your 50 %. They are ones you want to pay for your wars to protect the rich's wealth. You got to be ****ing kidding me!



    The GOP voted for the optional war in Iraq, let them eliminate their clients tax cuts to pay for it.



    You need some perspective, look at what taxes used to be when they were progressive, back before 3 decades of failed trickle down economics.

    More lies, the top taxpayers pay a higher share of the federal income burden now than at any time in the last 70 years. True rates are lower but those in the bottom 90% are paying far less income tax as well and this has caused the burden borne by the rich to INCREASE

    and since you constantly demand more government spending and more taxes on the rich you obviously believe more government will help everyone but the rich more.


    You cannot have it both ways



  8. #248
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The fact is catawba --you are constantly whining about the rich and demanding they pay more taxes. You constantly whine about the plight of the poor and who their lot is due to the predatory actions of the rich. You also want more government. The only logical conclusion of your position is that you see government as helping the poor and lower middle class and hurting the rich.
    Still have that reading comprehension problem 'eh "counselor." I just said I want to cut the size of government and reduce our deficit by almost a half trillion a year!!!! And without further suffering of the our seniors and the poor.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    More lies, the top taxpayers pay a higher share of the federal income burden now than at any time in the last 70 years. True rates are lower but those in the bottom 90% are paying far less income tax as well and this has caused the burden borne by the rich to INCREASE

    and since you constantly demand more government spending and more taxes on the rich you obviously believe more government will help everyone but the rich more.


    You cannot have it both ways
    Thanks for your opinion "counselor". Now let's look at the facts:

    "In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%."

    "It is widely believed that taxes are highly progressive and, furthermore, that the top several percent of income earners pay most of the taxes received by the federal government. Both ideas are wrong because they focus on official, rather than "effective" tax rates and ignore payroll taxes, which are mostly paid by those with incomes below $100,000 per year."
    Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

    "So where does this leave us? There’s some degree of uncertainty in making this kind of statement, since a very high-earning American’s tax rate can vary greatly, depending on the kinds of income earned (and what tax rate it’s subjected to) and the kinds of exemptions and deductions claimed on their return.

Even so, when Obama said that "if you're a … wealthy CEO or a … hedge fund manager in America right now, your taxes are … lower than they've been since the 1950s," he's close: Their tax rates are at or near the lows for the years elapsed since then.

The top marginal income tax rates were lower between 1988 and 1992 than they are today, but otherwise, Obama is right. They were higher for the other years. Meanwhile, the rates that are used to tax carried interest for hedge-fund managers have been at historical lows since 2003. And effective tax rates for high-income earners were either at their lowest since 1960 or very close to their lowest (at least according to the most recent data available). On balance, we rate Obama’s statement Mostly True."
    PolitiFact | Barack Obama says tax rates are lowest since 1950s for CEOs, hedge fund managers
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #250
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Still have that reading comprehension problem 'eh "counselor." I just said I want to cut the size of government and reduce our deficit by almost a half trillion a year!!!! And without further suffering of the our seniors and the poor.
    your own postings cut your argument apart. You bash the rich and demand they pay more taxes and you want more government. Your dear leader obama proved the poor benefit more from the government when he claimed the rich will sacrifice more by paying more taxes while the sacrifice the rest of america will suffer is LESS GOVERNMENT spending

    you cannot overcome that admission.



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