View Poll Results: Who benefits the most?

Voters
109. You may not vote on this poll
  • Rich.

    35 32.11%
  • Poor.

    74 67.89%
Page 22 of 27 FirstFirst ... 122021222324 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 220 of 269

Thread: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

  1. #211
    Guru
    Aderleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-08-16 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,294

    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Like I said he was a communist. Communists like him have no idea how you reach civil liberties just like libertarian socialist of today have no idea how you manage it.
    You said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    There is no Libertarian Socialism, just like there is no Libertarian left or right. Libertarian socialist are really just socialist, while people that say they there is a such thing as a libertarian left are really just communists. You continue to show you are confused on leans. It started with you saying you are anarchist, but you support UHC, and now there is this where you say some load about the existence of a libertarian socialist.
    Historically speaking, libertarian socialism was created by left wing anarchists with an interest in direct democracy and collective control of the means of production. The term, and the concept, are very real things. So to claim that "there is no Libertarian Socialism" is flat out false, both historically and philosophically. I haven't studied this in any kind of detail, therefore can't pretend to know precisely what the term meant to them, and so I will restrict myself to pointing out that being interested in collectivism in this sense is not remotely the same thing as promoting state control. See, for example...

    Anarchist communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    To be clear, I not a communist or an anarchist or a socialist or a libertarian of any stripe, I'm simply pointing out that historically speaking, both you and Turtledude are wrong about what the term means and where it came from.
    Last edited by Aderleth; 08-17-11 at 08:07 PM.

  2. #212
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    You said this:



    Historically speaking, libertarian socialism was created by left wing anarchists with an interest in direct democracy and collective control of the means of production. The term, and the concept, are very real things. I haven't studied this in any kind of detail, and so can't pretend to know precisely what it meant to them, and so I will restrict myself to pointing out that being interested in communism in this sense is not remotely the same thing as promoting state control. See, for example...

    Anarchist communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    To be clear, I not a communist or an anarchist or a socialist or a libertarian of any stripe, I'm simply pointing out that historically speaking, both you and Turtledude are wrong about what the term means and where it came from.
    To be fair communism has always pretended to be a lack of state control, hell its one of the main arguments for it.The problem is that collective controls need to strip freedoms in order to reach the goals of the system, which means they need government in order to manage the idea. So like I said, the man was confused on how you manage the ideas he was putting out.

  3. #213
    Guru
    Aderleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-08-16 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,294

    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    To be fair communism has always pretended to be a lack of state control, hell its one of the main arguments for it.The problem is that collective controls need to strip freedoms in order to reach the goals of the system, which means they need government in order to manage the idea. So like I said, the man was confused on how you manage the ideas he was putting out.
    There are many different types of communism (e.g. Anarcho-communists, Left communists, Marxist-Leninist-Trotskyites, Maoists, etc). So no, communism has not "always" pretended to be any one thing. It's a range of philosophical concepts with different beliefs. And no, not all of them involve government action. As I've said a couple of times now, anarcho communists explicitly rejected state control. You may disagree that such a thing is possible (as, probably, would I), but that doesn't change what the term meant.

  4. #214
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    There are many different types of communism (e.g. Anarcho-communists, Left communists, Marxist-Leninist-Trotskyites, Maoists, etc). So no, communism has not "always" pretended to be any one thing. It's a range of philosophical concepts with different beliefs. And no, not all of them involve government action. As I've said a couple of times now, anarcho communists explicitly rejected state control. You may disagree that such a thing is possible (as, probably, would I), but that doesn't change what the term meant.
    You can reject all kinds of things, but communist calls for no ownership of the means of production of anyone. The problem is you have to restrict people from owning the means of production aka property, and you will still need someone to actually manage the system. You can't strip liberty and pretend you are still for liberty. Its fails to hold up to the fundamental basis of the term.
    Last edited by Henrin; 08-17-11 at 09:03 PM.

  5. #215
    Gradualist

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    09-25-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    34,949
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Like I said he was a communist. Communists like him have no idea how you reach civil liberties just like libertarian socialist of today have no idea how you manage it.
    Ohh so its another left wing conspiracy theory again!! I gotcha


  6. #216
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Ohh so its another left wing conspiracy theory again!! I gotcha
    What now? A left wing conspiracy theory?

  7. #217
    Gradualist

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    09-25-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    34,949
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    "Communists like him have no idea how you reach civil liberties just like libertarian socialist of today have no idea how you manage it"

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What now? A left wing conspiracy theory?


  8. #218
    User
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Seen
    09-04-11 @ 11:12 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    13

    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    It depends on who is ultimately in power. Government officials at the top are politicians and are loyal to the people who helped them get their high paying jobs completed with incredible pension plans, health benefits, travel benefits, and other perks. They are not going to risk losing what they have so ultimately they are going to pass laws that help those who helped them. Sorry to bust the bubble but politicians are looking out for numero uno 24/7. They can't afford to lose their job and join the ranks of the unemployed you see.
    James - 100% love this country but things could be better.
    http://jobsandwealth.blogspot.com/

  9. #219
    Guru
    Aderleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-08-16 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,294

    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You can reject all kinds of things, but communist calls for no ownership of the means of production of anyone. The problem is you have to restrict people from owning the means of production aka property, and you will still need someone to actually manage the system. You can't strip liberty and pretend you are still for liberty. Its fails to hold up to the fundamental basis of the term.
    You're arguing against the underlying value or utility of the political philosophy in question. This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, which is that the political philosophy does exist, and was the linguistic basis of the term libertarianism. I frankly couldn't care less about whether or not it's a viable system.

  10. #220
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    an opinion of some blogger based on opinion and unsupported facts? LOL complete BS
    Cop out, disprove anything he said, if you can!!!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

Page 22 of 27 FirstFirst ... 122021222324 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •