View Poll Results: Who benefits the most?

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  • Rich.

    35 32.11%
  • Poor.

    74 67.89%
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Thread: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

  1. #11
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Which would be an example of the problem I was referring to.
    The point is when we went from essentially a free market system to the welfare-socialist system that change completely benefited the poor not the rich.



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    Educator U.S. Socialist.'s Avatar
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The rich are net tax payers. The poor are clothed, housed and fed by government. with less government the rich would be richer and the poor would starve. Its not even close.

    In the last six months this board has been infected by an onslaught of "bash the rich" whinuses. Its getting to the point where it appears this board becomes a place where those who are envious and hateful of the rich come to complain
    Without the government the rich would not exist. Without protection of private property and enforcement of contract your entire system would collapse. The rich owe every penny they have to the government for providing those two essential services. Therefore if the government decides to tax the rich at 90% then the rich had better pay.

  3. #13
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The point is when we went from essentially a free market system to the welfare-socialist system that change completely benefited the poor not the rich.
    And my point is that it benefits both. The provided stability allows for use of things like national infrastructure such an electrical system, roads, a more organized population and educated (which produces workers), etc. Which is more utilized by business concerns (and thus the owners of those businesses) more than the regular guy, for the purposes of creating a better market.

  4. #14
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    Without the government the rich would not exist. Without protection of private property and enforcement of contract your entire system would collapse. The rich owe every penny they have to the government for providing those two essential services. Therefore if the government decides to tax the rich at 90% then the rich had better pay.

    so before we had the modern welfare socialist state, there were no rich. Your rants are stupid as usual. The rich did fine before we had a constitutional republic. The rich did fine all over Europe with virtual anarchy. Your rant about taxing the rich is the pack mentality again. This board has become a place where the impotent and the non-mattering come to whine about the wealthy. Guess what? that is all they can do -whine



  5. #15
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so before we had the modern welfare socialist state, there were no rich. Your rants are stupid as usual. The rich did fine before we had a constitutional republic. The rich did fine all over Europe with virtual anarchy. Your rant about taxing the rich is the pack mentality again. This board has become a place where the impotent and the non-mattering come to whine about the wealthy. Guess what? that is all they can do -whine
    At the cost of basic human decency and rights.

    But yes, in a feudal system, there will be an accumulation of wealth by the strong men who were willing to oppress and kill for what they wanted.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 08-13-11 at 07:37 PM.

  6. #16
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    And my point is that it benefits both. The provided stability allows for use of things like national infrastructure such an electrical system, roads, a more organized population and educated (which produces workers), etc. Which is more utilized by business concerns (and thus the owners of those businesses) more than the regular guy, for the purposes of creating a better market.
    I will try again

    NO GOVERNMENT WHATSOEVER--the most ruthless and brutal do the best

    A minimalist government-The most talented and resourceful do the best

    a free market system that we essentially had for the first 130 or so years of our nation-the most talented and resourceful do the best

    a welfare-socialist system. The uber wealthy benefit since a welfare-socialst system impedes talented people from becoming super rich while it benefits the untalented and the lazy the most



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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I will try again

    NO GOVERNMENT WHATSOEVER--the most ruthless and brutal do the best

    A minimalist government-The most talented and resourceful do the best

    a free market system that we essentially had for the first 130 or so years of our nation-the most talented and resourceful do the best

    a welfare-socialist system. The uber wealthy benefit since a welfare-socialst system impedes talented people from becoming super rich while it benefits the untalented and the lazy the most
    You were the one referring to the state of the wealthy under an anarchistic society (which turned into rule by strong man or feudalism)

    A minimalist government-The most talented and resourceful do the best

    a free market system that we essentially had for the first 130 or so years of our nation-the most talented and resourceful do the best
    There were cases where this was true.

  8. #18
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I will try again

    NO GOVERNMENT WHATSOEVER--the most ruthless and brutal do the best

    A minimalist government-The most talented and resourceful do the best

    a free market system that we essentially had for the first 130 or so years of our nation-the most talented and resourceful do the best

    a welfare-socialist system. The uber wealthy benefit since a welfare-socialst system impedes talented people from becoming super rich while it benefits the untalented and the lazy the most
    So what you're saying is that those who pay for campaigns chose people who chose welfare socialism.

    So it would appear it was the uber-wealthy after all.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  9. #19
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so before we had the modern welfare socialist state, there were no rich. Your rants are stupid as usual. The rich did fine before we had a constitutional republic. The rich did fine all over Europe with virtual anarchy. Your rant about taxing the rich is the pack mentality again. This board has become a place where the impotent and the non-mattering come to whine about the wealthy. Guess what? that is all they can do -whine
    Virtual anarchy? What are you talking about? There was never anarchy in Europe. Do you mean the Feudal states ruled by lords and kings? Are you talking about the various democracies that eventually arose in the U.S. and Europe? The government still existed then and provided the services I listed. The fact remains you can't have capitalism without a government to protect private property and enforce contract rights. Give me an example anarchy in Europe. You won't find it, because it has never existed and it certainly hasn't existed during the same time as capitalism, because it is impossible. Capitalism requires the state.

  10. #20
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    I could not find my answer. Both benefit. Neither should benefit; except that freedom should be guaranteed to all.
    I assume you are using the term freedom loosely?

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