View Poll Results: Who benefits the most?

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  • Rich.

    35 32.11%
  • Poor.

    74 67.89%
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Thread: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

  1. #181
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    I think the poor benefit more. The government makes the rich pay higher taxes and the poor reap more benefits from the government (not that this is a bad thing).
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  2. #182
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I think the poor benefit more. The government makes the rich pay higher taxes and the poor reap more benefits from the government (not that this is a bad thing).
    Not saying that you are wrong or right .. but .. there seems to be plenty of arguments showing how the rich owe much to the government and so do the poor. Obviously the rich can afford to pay more for the government's services otherwise people like Buffet wouldn't being saying so. Who benefits more from the government is a rather arbitrary question anyway. It shouldn't matter. What should matter is that the system is set up in a way that all have equal opportunity and all pay a fair share .. right now .. as people like Buffet have said, the wealthiest aren't paying their fair share and as many have argued, there is certainly not equal opportunity.

  3. #183
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    Not saying that you are wrong or right .. but .. there seems to be plenty of arguments showing how the rich owe much to the government and so do the poor. Obviously the rich can afford to pay more for the government's services otherwise people like Buffet wouldn't being saying so. Who benefits more from the government is a rather arbitrary question anyway. It shouldn't matter. What should matter is that the system is set up in a way that all have equal opportunity and all pay a fair share .. right now .. as people like Buffet have said, the wealthiest aren't paying their fair share and as many have argued, there is certainly not equal opportunity.
    I think Buffett is wrong on the issue. Who deems "fair share?" The fact is that most poor people don't pay taxes, or they receive almost all of it back in a tax refund (which I don't think is wrong). Nothing is stopping the rich from donating to the government (which Buffett does not do). I think that the tax loopholes many rich people abuse and contort is wrong and we should reform that, but I think they pay their fair share. If we had true fairness we would have a flat tax (which I don't support, I support progressive taxation, it's a necessary evil). I do think that the rich pay enough already, and if anything they need to remove tax loop hose that the rich abuse to try and pay less taxes. However, I also think the poor should chip in somehow too. If they are on social programs they should be drug tested. Welfare should be seen as a financial rehab program and not as a way of life. We also need to reform Medicaid, but this is for another thread
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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  4. #184
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I think Buffett is wrong on the issue.
    Well of course you do

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Who deems "fair share?"
    I would hope that in a democracy, that would be left up to the majority vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The fact is that most poor people don't pay taxes, or they receive almost all of it back in a tax refund (which I don't think is wrong).
    OK then we are on the same page

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Nothing is stopping the rich from donating to the government (which Buffett does not do).
    Nothing except greed and a system that does not encourage it (otherwise people would be doing it)

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I think that the tax loopholes many rich people abuse and contort is wrong and we should reform that
    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    but I think they pay their fair share.
    Clearly they do not as they use tax loopholes

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    If we had true fairness we would have a flat tax (which I don't support, I support progressive taxation, it's a necessary evil).
    The fact that you do not agree is an indication that a flat tax would not be fair .. we've already covered why this is in previous threads

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I do think that the rich pay enough already
    Nope, they don't

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    they need to remove tax loop hose that the rich abuse to try and pay less taxes
    Again, I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    However, I also think the poor should chip in somehow too.
    Agreed, and they are required to and do

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    If they are on social programs they should be drug tested.
    if you new anything about the connection between substance abuse and mental illness you would see how that would be problematic

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Welfare should be seen as a financial rehab program and not as a way of life.
    Agreed, however given that different people have different abilities, it is likely that many would never get out of welfare unless wages were increased

  5. #185
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Gotta love these false dichotomies.

    The rich and the poor BOTH benefit, as it is the middle class that is being hurt.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  6. #186
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Gotta love these false dichotomies.

    The rich and the poor BOTH benefit, as it is the middle class that is being hurt.
    Could not agree more .. the wealthy need tax increases and the middle class need tax cuts

  7. #187
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    The Rich gain the most benefit as a whole from government. They are protected from those who'd take their wealth by force, they are given an environment where their riches can be made, etc.

    That said...

    The Government also gains the most benefit from the Rich. I don't know anyone who suggests the Rich shouldn't be paying more in total dollars to the government than the poor. The issues I hear is people being upset with making the Rich pay even more than the ridiculously large portion they already pay.

    Yes, the Rich benefit from the government in a larger degree. They also pay far more money into the government. The government gets far more benefit in terms of dollars from the Rich than the non-rich. Your suggestion is correct, your assertion that its somehow an excuse to raise taxes further on the rich is not.

  8. #188
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The Rich gain the most benefit as a whole from government. They are protected from those who'd take their wealth by force, they are given an environment where their riches can be made, etc.

    That said...

    The Government also gains the most benefit from the Rich. I don't know anyone who suggests the Rich shouldn't be paying more in total dollars to the government than the poor. The issues I hear is people being upset with making the Rich pay even more than the ridiculously large portion they already pay.

    Yes, the Rich benefit from the government in a larger degree. They also pay far more money into the government. The government gets far more benefit in terms of dollars from the Rich than the non-rich. Your suggestion is correct, your assertion that its somehow an excuse to raise taxes further on the rich is not.
    Actually, my assertion that the rich should pay more via closing tax loopholes and reducing taxes on the middle class using the additional funds received from closing those loopholes is the most fair thing to do. If we want a country that encourages upward class movement we need to increase wages and stop letting the middle class shoulder so much taxes, while instead closing loopholes for the wealthy and forcing them to stick to the current progressive tax system.

  9. #189
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Che Guevara was a murdering psychopath. He's credited with at least 500 murders and in a letter to his father said, "I'd like to confess, Papa, at that moment I discovered that I really like killing."

    Either your lack of education is showing or you need to move to the socialist paradise called Cuba.

  10. #190
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Gotta love these false dichotomies.

    The rich and the poor BOTH benefit, as it is the middle class that is being hurt.
    Statistically Iím a member of the rich. I have more wealth to protect, two homes, one in a very nice location. We travel frequently, 30,000 miles on our car in one year at least 25K of that was for pleasure. The state provided security, roads, rest stops to support my pleasure. Government protects our investments, investments that the poor donít have and that the middle class has very little of. The feds regulate the vendors of our meds, Dr.s, investment firms, in a way that protects us. And we pay very low taxes, except a certain property tax, because how we have set up things. Generally in a free market people are charged according to the value of what is being protected and how much of certain services are used. Not in our case. Sorry.

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