View Poll Results: Who benefits the most?

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  • Rich.

    35 32.11%
  • Poor.

    74 67.89%
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Thread: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

  1. #151
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Wont work...heres what you said quote

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    never said that. I just tire of trade school enlistees acting like everyone else ought to pay more taxes.

    you have never provided any evidence that you are on a military disability or a 30 year careerist

    I noted in other threads that such people deserve the benefit of whatever contract they entered


    YOUR tired of trade school enlistees? you and most of the other rich slouchs couldnt live with out tradesmen...collectively the rich couldnt build themselves a doll house out of popsycle sticks...lol...you throw out so much of your seething hateful trash about the working class you forget what you say...
    I will get back to you when you figure out what posts you are responding to and what posts you want me to respond to.



  2. #152
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    You would have a point if they REALLY did. They do not and we have talked about this before.
    You cannot deny that the top one percent pay about 40% of the income tax and they make about 22% of the income. If you can prove otherwise feel free to do so

    and you certainly cannot claim that the rich use 40% of the services paid for by the income tax and the bottom 50% only use a couple percentage points of that government services



  3. #153
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    It depends on how much government. Who benefits from some government is nearly everyone.

    But who would benefit from big government. That is mostly insiders and they are mostly middle class. If you look at countries with lots of regulation and high governmental spending. You will find countries such as Italy, Greece and France. Scandinavian countries do have similar levels of governmental spending, but they have a lot less regulation.

    In these societies, the ones on the inside, for instance Government workers benefit from better protection. Who are hurt in these societies? That is the young and the ones in private sector. Youth are not able to get a job, because businesses know that they can't fire them for poor performance. If they get a job, regulation state that they are the first one to get fired. The youth unemployment is 23% in France, 28% in Italy and 38% in Greece. US is at 19%, but remember 2 things. First off, US got some of the same problems. Secondly, the crisis hit US much harder than both France and Italy.

    Some of you may mention Scandinavia, but they are in a completly different class. If US copied the policies in Scandinavia, US wouldn't get the same social outcomes. You can see that from Sweden who has accepted the most immigrants. The social outcomes for their minorities are absolutly horrible, and they have a youth unemployment of 23% even though the economy is doing really well right now.
    Last edited by Camlon; 08-14-11 at 04:09 AM.

  4. #154
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    One of the arguments I've seen from a few posters as to why the rich shouldn't pay more taxes is because they claim the poor benefit the most from the government. I disagree and here is why. The rich use the highway system to ship their goods, they use public airwaves to advertise their goods, they use the courts far more than the poor, if they ship goods by air they have to rely on government air traffic controllers, and I'm sure it costs a lot of money to keep shipping lanes clear and open., especially from troubled parts of the world. The government also gives the energy industry large subsidies.

    However, you could ignore everything I listed above and the fact would remain the the rich depend on the government for their very existence as a social class. The system that allowed them to make their money, capitalism, could not exist without a government.

    The government enforces contracts and protects private property. These two things are necessary for capitalism to exist and neither one of them benefits the poor. If you remove the government from the equation then capitalism will collapse. So if the government decides to tax the rich at 90%, then they should pay without complaining, because every penny they own was made possibly by state violence in favor against the poor. To clarify I should point out that protection of private property does not benefit the poor, because they have own no private property. In this case private property refers to the means of production.
    False dilemma, everyone benefits in different ways, it's nearly impossible to say who benefits "the most".
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #155
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    False dilemma, everyone benefits in different ways, it's nearly impossible to say who benefits "the most".
    probably true so those who justify the top one percent paying 40% of the income taxes or demand they pay even more based on the claim the rich benefit more are just making stuff up



  6. #156
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    Without the government the rich would not exist. Without protection of private property and enforcement of contract your entire system would collapse. The rich owe every penny they have to the government for providing those two essential services. Therefore if the government decides to tax the rich at 90% then the rich had better pay.
    Without people who pay taxes, the government wouldn't exist, either. It's a team effort and I think most Leftists aren't getting that.

  7. #157
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Without people who pay taxes, the government wouldn't exist, either. It's a team effort and I think most Leftists aren't getting that.
    I agree, but the rich should still pay more taxes because they get more benefits from the government.

  8. #158
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Rich people have always been rather good at protecting what they have. In a libertarian society, the rich would be free to earn and earn while looters would be shot or hung
    Ahhh...Somalia! That's what we should be aiming for!

  9. #159
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    False dilemma, everyone benefits in different ways, it's nearly impossible to say who benefits "the most".
    probably true so those who justify the top one percent paying 40% of the income taxes or demand they pay even more based on the claim the rich benefit more are just making stuff up
    The people who benefit the most from a social order as imposed by the law and culture of a nation are the people who obtain the most from it. In essence, the wealthy.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 08-14-11 at 04:17 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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  10. #160
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    Re: Who benefits the most from the government? Rich or poor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    The people who benefit the most from a social order as imposed by the law and culture of a nation are the people who obtain the most from it. In essence, the wealthy.
    If we went by an incredibly simplistic definition, you may have been right, but we have to view these things contextually.
    Having a lot of money ≠ benefiting the most.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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