View Poll Results: Read article in first post and vote...

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  • I strongly support this project

    3 9.68%
  • I support this project

    11 35.48%
  • I am somewhere in the middle

    6 19.35%
  • I am against this project

    5 16.13%
  • I am strongly against this project

    4 12.90%
  • Other

    2 6.45%
  • No opinion

    0 0%
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Thread: Do you support this military project?

  1. #41
    Educator shintao's Avatar
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    Read article, vote and comment...

    DARPA Loses Hypersonic Vehicle, Goes From $320M to Zero in*2,700 Seconds - FoxNews.com

    I'm split on this one... I'm bothered that this much has been spent on a currently failing project, yet if they eventually succeed I can only imagine we'd be saving billions more per year if politicians view this vehicle as a reason to close many of the military bases we have all over the world. What would be the point of having bases all around the world when we can attack anywhere on Earth within an hour anyways?

    However, I am skeptical that some military advocates would go along with this hypothetical plan...
    I'm not buying it. You don't just lose a missile in the Pacific. They track these launches and have GPS to pin point exactly where it is. So,...............? Ooops! Conspiracy thread coming up.
    One Tin Soldier Walked Away..................

  2. #42
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    Why do you assume that I was talking to you directly?

    Dually noted.

    In which case, if the money should not be invested in more Seals, or what not, putting 320 million in a long term investment when we are looking at what, 14 trillion in debt, isn't practical at all, but is actually insane.
    Whether it's insane is a matter of opinion, but it's stupid to suggest that it's insane simply because it's a long-term investment costing 320 million and we're 14 trillion in debt.

    If instead this were an infrastructure project, like fixing our roads, power grids, or water systems, hell yeah it would be worth it regardless of how deeply in debt we are.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #43
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    What you said was true, and so I have to be more specific. It is insane to invest 320 million dollars on a long term military investment, when we are trillions in debt and we are already the supreme army, what have you, in the world. Especially considering that technology alone does not win wars.
    Last edited by sookster; 08-12-11 at 12:12 PM.

  4. #44
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    Quote Originally Posted by shintao View Post
    I'm not buying it. You don't just lose a missile in the Pacific. They track these launches and have GPS to pin point exactly where it is. So,...............? Ooops! Conspiracy thread coming up.
    They said they'll try to recover it. It apparently fell into the ocean, so yes, right now it is lost.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #45
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    What you said was true, and so I have to be more specific. It is insane to invest 320 million dollars on a long term military investment, when we are trillions in debt and we are already the supreme army, what have you, in the world.
    Alright. A better argument, but I still disagree.

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with spending money on a long-term investment right now, as long as you get a return on it eventually. $320 million is absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things, and regardless of whether or not we're $14 trillion in debt, this is probably money we're going to be spending sooner or later regardless, and in the future, if it pays off and has both commercial and military uses, we won't even think about what 320 million did for us way back when.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  6. #46
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    True, but you are assuming this investment will be successful. There is just the other possibility that the investment will be a failure.

    And it is true, that 320 million is nothing. But if you have that ideology when trying to balance your check books, "Oh this is nothing, let's keep spending on that. On that too!" Eventually you will not only not solve the problem, but you will make the problem worse.

    The people in power, have all these fancy degrees from ivy league schools, and yet they do not know how to balance a check book. This means, that there will be fancy toys you can not buy anymore. If I go out and put 2000 dollars on a fancy drum set on a credit card, I can't keep spending on my old expenses with my added debt. If I was responsible, I would stop spending money on certain things and put it towards my 2000 dollar purchase.

    So yeah, 320 million is nothing, but it is something, and it is adding to our deficit on something that may or may not work, and if it works, it will not win us wars alone.

  7. #47
    global liberation

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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    You are completely incorrect. Iraq had an intellectual class, but they fled:
    Incorrect. That was not an intellectual class. That was the leftovers who somehow managed to survive the genocidal dictator who killed everyone who had any idea besides his own. Iraq was depleted of social capital. That's what happened when a madman with totalitarian power took absolute grip on a country for a few generations.

    Mr. Invisible, are you Muslim?
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-12-11 at 12:19 PM.

  8. #48
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    If he was Muslim, why would it matter?

  9. #49
    global liberation

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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    it will not win us wars alone.
    Have you completely lost perspective?

  10. #50
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    So how would this added technology, assuming it will be successful and go into fruition, how will it win us the war alone? Please, enlighten me.

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