View Poll Results: Read article in first post and vote...

Voters
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  • I strongly support this project

    3 9.68%
  • I support this project

    11 35.48%
  • I am somewhere in the middle

    6 19.35%
  • I am against this project

    5 16.13%
  • I am strongly against this project

    4 12.90%
  • Other

    2 6.45%
  • No opinion

    0 0%
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Thread: Do you support this military project?

  1. #21
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    I am against this project, and let me explain why.

    So much spending is put into our military. First, we all know that we have the supreme military, at least the majority of US citizens would like to think that. Second, as we have learned from more modern wars, that technology does not win wars, but the men that operate the technology. (Patton has a quote of this, and the movie Captain America plays with this concept.) Recently, a helicopter was shot down, and twenty five special forces soldiers were killed.

    Technology doesn't win wars, people do. It would be nice to have a weapon where you just press a button and a war is won. Unfortunately, that is in fantasy land. The only counter argument I can see to this would be the atom bombs that were dropped in Japan during WWII. While it is true that the bomb allowed for an allied victory, the world rushed to obtain that technology. And now, many nations have the power of the a-bomb.

    First, I think we as a nation have to balance our check books. Unfortunately, in the real world, when you are in debt so much, you can't keep spending on the things that you want. I feel like the people in power are being immature about this whole situation. Washington spent themselves into this problem, and now they have to face the consequences. This recent bill is pathetic. The amount of cuts over 10 years, we occur over three days. It really is stupid. And now the government, while we owe so much money to so many different lenders, are spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a new project? This really is pathetic.

    So no, I am totally against this project.
    I don't know what scares me more, this post or the fact that you get to vote.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  2. #22
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    I support any military R&D project, that could give us the edge over the bad guys and/or create more force protection on the battlefield.

  3. #23
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    don't know what scares me more, this post or the fact that you get to vote.
    Why don't you elaborate? It is easy to point fingers without any logic to back your claims.

    People are suggesting that technology from the defense department gets to be used for commercial use.

    What is funny, is when it comes to NASA and space exploration this statement is rarely used. I bet you guys didn't know this, but NASA patents are FREE to the public!!! And, technology from NASA more than likely has been used in the defense realm as well.

    The point I am trying to make, is if you are going to take the stance that defense spending leads to higher standards of living, NASA does this way better. If you have this stance, you would be more efficient in promoting technological advancement if you cut the spending in our defense and put it back into space exploration.

  4. #24
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    Why don't you elaborate? It is easy to point fingers without any logic to back your claims.

    People are suggesting that technology from the defense department gets to be used for commercial use.

    What is funny, is when it comes to NASA and space exploration this statement is rarely used. I bet you guys didn't know this, but NASA patents are FREE to the public!!! And, technology from NASA more than likely has been used in the defense realm as well.

    The point I am trying to make, is if you are going to take the stance that defense spending leads to higher standards of living, NASA does this way better. If you have this stance, you would be more efficient in promoting technological advancement if you cut the spending in our defense and put it back into space exploration.
    I think most people are taking issue with your notion that "technology doesn't win wars."

    People win wars, but technology sure as hell helps.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #25
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    Sure, technology does help. But it is people that operate the technology that allows it to work, no?

    You also didn't mention the microbiological advantage that Europeans had. If you were to read the book Guns, Germs, and Steel the world is the way it is because certain people had early access to Guns, Germs, and Steel. Why did they have early access? It wasn't because one race was superior than the other. It had everything to do with geography. They were just at the right place at the right time.

    When we engaged on the Indians, not only did we have guns, but we also had germs.

    Once again, technology doesn't win wars, people do. It is people that not only design the innovation but execute and use that said innovation. Navy Seals are getting shot down from basic rockets out in Afghanistan. I'm sure the Seals had way more advanced technology than the Taliban on the ground. Technology didn't save them, now did it?

  6. #26
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    If tech didn't matter, we might have a World Caliphate, Communism or Scientology (ok, that last one's not tech... they're just nuts).
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-12-11 at 11:46 AM.

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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    I am not saying it doesn't matter at all. I am saying it is people that matter more than technology.

  8. #28
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    I knew from the first "tech doesn't matter" post that he was going for the "Taliban are winning!" (of course, because they're better people). No, dude, they're not winning. And neither are the terrorists in Iraq. We don't have a World Caliphate and we're not gonna. We're just finishing the majority of the roaches.


    I'm sure the Seals had way more advanced technology than the Taliban on the ground. Technology didn't save them, now did it?
    You got us. They're winning the war. :rollie eyes

    Sookster, are you Muslim? If you deny it and are, you're an apostate. Maybe you're just a peacenik but you are WAY off base here, buddy.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-12-11 at 11:51 AM.

  9. #29
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    Regardless if they are winning or not, and regardless of whether it has everything to do with technology or not, I am sure you agree that we have started a blood feud to these people. Where did I say in any of my statements that we were losing? Why do you insist upon putting words in my mouth?

    Whether we win or lose, the men that we killed have brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, sons, and daughters. We are self fulfilling what their texts teach them. We are evil in their eyes.

    So we may win, and we may sing in our glory. But when generations upon generations learn of the history of what happened, revenge will surely come.

  10. #30
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    Re: Do you support this military project?

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    Sure, technology does help. But it is people that operate the technology that allows it to work, no?
    Did I say somewhere that people DON'T MATTER?

    You also didn't mention the microbiological advantage that Europeans had. If you were to read the book Guns, Germs, and Steel the world is the way it is because certain people had early access to Guns, Germs, and Steel. Why did they have early access? It wasn't because one race was superior than the other. It had everything to do with geography. They were just at the right place at the right time.

    When we engaged on the Indians, not only did we have guns, but we also had germs.
    And Jared Diamond is relevant to the current discussion how? Yes, I've read Guns, Germs and Steel, and no, that really has nothing to do with this discussion. I repeat my original point: technology gives you a decisive advantage in warfare. I'm not denying the existence of other factors, but in this day and age, technology helps. A LOT.

    Once again, technology doesn't win wars, people do. It is people that not only design the innovation but execute and use that said innovation. Navy Seals are getting shot down from basic rockets out in Afghanistan. I'm sure the Seals had way more advanced technology than the Taliban on the ground. Technology didn't save them, now did it?
    What's your point, and what exactly does that prove? That technology is irrelevant? In most cases, technology still gives you a decisive advantage. Now, admittedly in asymmetrical conflicts that advantage is significantly diminished, but that doesn't mean that technology isn't a factor at all.

    I could also point out that a clear technological advantage allowed us to win the ground war in the Desert Storm 1991 in a mere four days.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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