View Poll Results: What is Anders Breivik?

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Thread: Is Anders Breivik an Atheist or a Christian?

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    Is Anders Breivik an Atheist or a Christian?

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...post1059721870

    Basically, IS Anders Breivik a Christian? I'm getting a lot of conflicting data from Christian organizations to, lol, Media Matters.

    Can you help me with this? It seems Breivik will eternally be deemed a Christian to further their pro-Islam.stance.

    I'm currently searching for his own words, and I could really use your help with this. If it is so cut-and-dry, then let's put this issue to bed.

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    Re: Is Anders Breivik an Atheist or a Christian?

    By his own words, he considers himself Protestant and moderately so. Yes, he is a Christian.

    While at first blush, it seems from his manifesto that he is an extremist/fundamentalist Christian, that does not appear to be the case if you actually read it. It appears as though he sees Christianity as a cultural and perhaps even ethnic label - like "Jewish" - and his extremism stems from that.

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    Re: Is Anders Breivik an Atheist or a Christian?

    By his own words he acknowledges that he is not a christian. What he does in his manifesto is he creates new definitions for Christianity. For instance, if someone declared themselves to he a homosexual who is not attracted to a person of the same sex but is attracted to members of the opposite sex, then no matter how much this person declared themselves to be a homosexual, they wouldn't qualify.

    Breivik's own words:

    If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform.

    He's declaring that there exist two categories of Christians, those who are religious and those who admire the cultural, social,identity and moral artifacts which arise within societies which are dominated by "religious Christians."

    There certainly is a category for people who qualify under his definition but they're not Christians. They'd be better described as Westerners or Post-Enlightenment adherents, or Western Civilization fans.

    He's as confused as that nutty Christian preacher who thought she could simultaneously be a Muslim.

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    Re: Is Anders Breivik an Atheist or a Christian?

    "Can you help me with this? It seems Breivik will eternally be deemed a Christian to further their pro-Islam.stance. " Lol so anyone who disagrees with you is pro-Islam now? Sorry,he was a Christian and saying that doesn't make me "pro-Islam." It means I look at facts.

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    Re: Is Anders Breivik an Atheist or a Christian?

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    "Can you help me with this? It seems Breivik will eternally be deemed a Christian to further their pro-Islam.stance. " Lol so anyone who disagrees with you is pro-Islam now? Sorry,he was a Christian and saying that doesn't make me "pro-Islam." It means I look at facts.
    I'm having a hard time swallowing what you're pushing in that you looking at facts and concluding that he is a Christian don't compute. Wanting him to be a Christian and massaging the facts rings far truer.

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    Re: Is Anders Breivik an Atheist or a Christian?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    By his own words he acknowledges that he is not a christian. What he does in his manifesto is he creates new definitions for Christianity. For instance, if someone declared themselves to he a homosexual who is not attracted to a person of the same sex but is attracted to members of the opposite sex, then no matter how much this person declared themselves to be a homosexual, they wouldn't qualify.

    Breivik's own words:

    If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform.

    He's declaring that there exist two categories of Christians, those who are religious and those who admire the cultural, social,identity and moral artifacts which arise within societies which are dominated by "religious Christians."

    There certainly is a category for people who qualify under his definition but they're not Christians. They'd be better described as Westerners or Post-Enlightenment adherents, or Western Civilization fans.

    He's as confused as that nutty Christian preacher who thought she could simultaneously be a Muslim.
    If this is true then no he is not a Christian.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Is Anders Breivik an Atheist or a Christian?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...post1059721870

    Basically, IS Anders Breivik a Christian? I'm getting a lot of conflicting data from Christian organizations to, lol, Media Matters.

    Can you help me with this? It seems Breivik will eternally be deemed a Christian to further their pro-Islam.stance.

    I'm currently searching for his own words, and I could really use your help with this. If it is so cut-and-dry, then let's put this issue to bed.
    this is a reply to you from another thread. (which you conveniently ignored by the way). it says it all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    But you see that's the difference.

    I'm not saying that, to get at you. Im not saying it, to paint Christianity in a bad light.

    He wasn't a Christian in a conventional sense or what a christain should be.

    The terrorists of 9/11 are not Muslims in a conventional sense. And are not what a Muslim should be.

    That is why when bigots attempt to link 9/11 to the general Muslim population I shall stand with them.

    And why when you use words like "pro-Islam" you're exposing your own fear, your own bigotry and your own stupidity.
    Why do we fall?
    So we can learn to pick ourselves up.

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    Re: Is Anders Breivik an Atheist or a Christian?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...post1059721870

    Basically, IS Anders Breivik a Christian? I'm getting a lot of conflicting data from Christian organizations to, lol, Media Matters.

    Can you help me with this? It seems Breivik will eternally be deemed a Christian to further their pro-Islam.stance.

    I'm currently searching for his own words, and I could really use your help with this. If it is so cut-and-dry, then let's put this issue to bed.
    I wouldn't trust a damn thing media matters says. Whether or not that man is a Christian who the hell cares other retards trying to use the man to paint all Christians in a negative light.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Is Anders Breivik an Atheist or a Christian?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    this is a reply to you from another thread. (which you conveniently ignored by the way). it says it all.
    I did no such thing. Do you not think people decide to respond to more important posts the morning after, rather than when delirious? Perhaps your skittish and impulsive behavior speaks for you.

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    Re: Is Anders Breivik an Atheist or a Christian?

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    this is a reply to you from another thread. (which you conveniently ignored by the way). it says it all.
    That reply suffers from poor command of details.

    It's logically structured like this:

    Religion (pick Christianity or Islam)
    Someone who claims to be religious does something bad.
    Bigots try to link the bad actor to the religion.

    Where Jetboogieman fails is in the first premise, that religions are interchangeable and mean the same thing as they intersect with the broader world.

    Islam is a religion that is not merely professional, meaning it's not something that defines a relationship between an adherent and their god. Rather it is a total civilizational handbook. So, just on this one aspect there is a serious diversion between Islam and Christianity developing, especially with respect to how they interact with broad society.

    Secondly, Islam is, from the ground up, a warrior religion. It divides the world into two realms, The House of Peace and The House of War. It is chock full of commands to adherents on what they must do to advance the rise of Islam, commands which violate what most people see as behavior conforming to a religious template. Then there is the issue of how all 5 of the major schools of Islam have no dispute on the notion that death is the appropriate punishment for one who seeks to leave Islam. This has an astounding effect on religious homogeneity in Islamic societies. Again, there is no counterpart in modern Christianity to killing people who want to leave the fold.

    Christianity went through reform and it spawned the Enlightenment. Islam is still stuck in the 6th Century warrior ethos. Calling them both religions doesn't make them fully equivalent.

    The upshot of the above is that those "bigots" who link 9/11 and other terrorism to Islam have a pretty damn strong case for their position in that Jihad and other tactics are mandated by Islamic text. There is nothing in Christian texts or practiced doctrine (assuming just for this comment that Breivik was motivated by religious doctrine or fervor) which instructs adherents to go on a killing spree.

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