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Is Anders Breivik an Atheist or a Christian?

What is Anders Breivik?

  • Total voters
    21
Wake said:
Who the beck are you to judge bigotry? You're as biased as most other members here.
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Thunder is possibly THE MOST biased poster here.
 
Wake said:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...m-sentiment-mainstream-54.html#post1059721870

Basically, IS Anders Breivik a Christian? I'm getting a lot of conflicting data from Christian organizations to, lol, Media Matters.

Can you help me with this? It seems Breivik will eternally be deemed a Christian to further their pro-Islam.stance.

I'm currently searching for his own words, and I could really use your help with this. If it is so cut-and-dry, then let's put this issue to bed.
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Why does his religion matter so much to people... first everybody wanted to jump to think he was Muslim, and now, nobody wants to say he is Christian. :lol:
 
RiverDad said:
By his own words he acknowledges that he is not a christian. What he does in his manifesto is he creates new definitions for Christianity. For instance, if someone declared themselves to he a homosexual who is not attracted to a person of the same sex but is attracted to members of the opposite sex, then no matter how much this person declared themselves to be a homosexual, they wouldn't qualify.

Breivik's own words:

If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform.​

He's declaring that there exist two categories of Christians, those who are religious and those who admire the cultural, social,identity and moral artifacts which arise within societies which are dominated by "religious Christians."

There certainly is a category for people who qualify under his definition but they're not Christians. They'd be better described as Westerners or Post-Enlightenment adherents, or Western Civilization fans.

He's as confused as that nutty Christian preacher who thought she could simultaneously be a Muslim.
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I think he is saying he is Christian, but not religious... It's like a lot of people say they are Christian, but many of them don't go to church regularly.
 
They guy identified with the Christian religion.

He considered himself Christian.

Case closed.


The only direction this discussion is going to go in, is that the label Christian is subjective.


Is Wake a Christian or not?
Yes
No


Let's debate Wake's Christian identity next.
 
SheWolf said:
They guy identified with the Christian religion.

He considered himself Christian.

Case closed....
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I think some folks are trying to wiggle out of having to acknowledge his Christian faith, so as to dissassociate him from other Christians.

But if the Muslims could not do this with the 9-11 19, neither can Christians with Breivik.
 
SheWolf said:
I think he is saying he is Christian, but not religious... It's like a lot of people say they are Christian, but many of them don't go to church regularly.
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The further one moves away from the mean level of concept definition the less claim one can lay to being within the ballpark of accuracy. Here is the tale of the Christian preacher who also claimed that she was a full-fledged Muslim at the same time.

Shortly after noon on Fridays, the Rev. Ann Holmes Redding ties on a black headscarf, preparing to pray with her Muslim group on First Hill.

On Sunday mornings, Redding puts on the white collar of an Episcopal priest.

She does both, she says, because she's Christian and Muslim.

Redding, who until recently was director of faith formation at St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral, has been a priest for more than 20 years. Now she's ready to tell people that, for the last 15 months, she's also been a Muslim — drawn to the faith after an introduction to Islamic prayers left her profoundly moved.

Her announcement has provoked surprise and bewilderment in many, raising an obvious question: How can someone be both a Christian and a Muslim?​

ABB is in her territory of crafting his own definitions. People upthread claim that anyone who claims to be something is that something. So if I claim that I am a tree, then everyone must accept me as a tree. That's a purposely extreme example, but so is ABBs case. He manages to reconcile the existence of Christian Atheists, you know people who believe in god and reject his existence at the same time.

Being a Christian Muslim, being a Christian Atheist, me being a tree, are all claims that are divorced from reality.
 
Hatuey said:
I don't get it, right wingers. Why all the fuss to try and distance yourselves from this man? I mean sure, I get that none of you espouse his ideas of a crusade and killing people but ideologically speaking, he is a right wing Christian fundamentalist. When it's the left's turn we actually acknowledge that the guy is a leftist (see Ayers, Weathermen Group etc.) while trying to ensure that the person is labelled accurately within the leftist subsections of ideological thought(ie. socialist, communist, progressive etc.). What we distance ourselves from is their actions as that is what makes them fundamentalists. I've never seen anybody on the left claim that the left isn't environmentally conscious and believes in having policies which reflect that. What we, the modern left, distance ourselves from is senselessly violent action in order to achieve said goals. Yet the right wing almost NEVER takes any kind of responsibility for those who not only espouse their ideas but also promote violence within their ranks. They do it with Hitler, homegrown terrorists etc. The right is almost too afraid to claim their terrorists, leaders, etc. George Bush wasn't a Conservative. McVeigh wasn't right wing. McCarthy wasn't right wing. It's kind of silly. Acknowledging that you share ideological beliefs with somebody doesn't make you a fundamentalist. It's how you go on about said beliefs.
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It all comes down to the fact that some people want to believe their religion is better than others, and they are better people because of their religion... It's really ****ing stupid. Instead of judging each other and spilling blood, they should follow their holy scriptures and learn they aren't so different. It really is the same god. Some people are just stupid though...
 
SheWolf said:
They guy identified with the Christian religion.

He considered himself Christian.

Case closed..
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I identify with trees.

I am a tree.

Case closed. Everyone must respect the validity of my claim that I am a tree.
 
Cold Highway said:
Does it matter what the **** he is? The SOB killed a bunch of children for God sakes! However Im not surprised people are using this sick **** for their own political ends.
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It never should have mattered what he was... he wasn't a Muslim like a lot of people jumped to assume. It just doesn't matter what he was. I agree. If he happened to be a Muslim, then he would have been a Muslim. He considered himself Christian though... that's just how the cards fell. :shrug:
 
Is there any reason to believe that Breivik is not a Christian as he claims?

No, no there is not.

He is a Christian and sees himself as a modern-day Crusader.
 
Wake said:
The point of my polls is to gather data from both sides; I desire clarification.

This situation is volatile, a situation that I don't have enough comprehensive data to form an argument. Merely, I know Breivik called himself a Christian, but then again I could kill people and call myself a Christian. Doesn't make me one. The thing is, radical Muslims follow the fullness of the Koran---they KEEL the infidels.

There isn't a majority OR a minority that stones homosexuals or stones disrespectful children, etc. Do you know what Sharia Law is? I had the "pleasure" of watching a man have his hands cut off for stealing---saw it on YouTube. Crap like that happens under Sharia Law in those nations. Christians don't do that.

There's a difference between nutjobs who think they're Christian, and a large following of zealous Muslims who follow the Koran "in full."



It is human nature to find examples to further our agendas.
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Wow, you watched that on youtube, you must know everything there is to know about Sharia Law then... :lol:
 
SheWolf said:
They guy identified with the Christian religion.

He considered himself Christian.

Case closed.


The only direction this discussion is going to go in, is that the label Christian is subjective.


Is Wake a Christian or not?
Yes
No


Let's debate Wake's Christian identity next.
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Agree. Whatever label someone slaps on themselves is what they are. The End.

Folks are free to feel they are full of crap and whatever but I am of the mind that you can label yourself as whatever ya want. But do not get all like crazy when someone calls you out if you are not really that thing. Of course who is it to say what someone is or is not.
 
RiverDad said:
I identify with trees.

I am a tree.

Case closed. Everyone must respect the validity of my claim that I am a tree.
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Your comparison is an absolute failure... apples to oranges. You're not a tree, we can prove so with science. It all boils down to a discussion about subjectivity. Lern2logic
 
Kali said:
Agree. Whatever label someone slaps on themselves is what they are. The End.

Folks are free to feel they are full of crap and whatever but I am of the mind that you can label yourself as whatever ya want. But do not get all like crazy when someone calls you out if you are not really that thing. Of course who is it to say what someone is or is not.
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So if ABB had called himself a liberal but had issued his manifesto just as it was, it would be hunky dory to categorize him as a liberal who rejected all the principles of the Norwegian socialist movement and instead was a liberal who embraced the principles of the Norwegian conservative parties along with the principles of his other philosophical choices?

All that would matter would be his claim to be a liberal?

As a tree, I don't buy that for a second.
 
RiverDad said:
By his own words he acknowledges that he is not a christian. What he does in his manifesto is he creates new definitions for Christianity. For instance, if someone declared themselves to he a homosexual who is not attracted to a person of the same sex but is attracted to members of the opposite sex, then no matter how much this person declared themselves to be a homosexual, they wouldn't qualify.

Breivik's own words:

If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform.​

He's declaring that there exist two categories of Christians, those who are religious and those who admire the cultural, social,identity and moral artifacts which arise within societies which are dominated by "religious Christians."

There certainly is a category for people who qualify under his definition but they're not Christians. They'd be better described as Westerners or Post-Enlightenment adherents, or Western Civilization fans.

He's as confused as that nutty Christian preacher who thought she could simultaneously be a Muslim.
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By that same logic the men who committed 9/11 are not Muslims.
 
Thunder said:
Is there any reason to believe that Breivik is not a Christian as he claims?

No, no there is not.

He is a Christian and sees himself as a modern-day Crusader.
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Yes there is. He said himself that he was not religious and only believed in the values of chritstianity. Your response was, "only a mind reader would know if he was Christian." I disagree, but even if you are right, you can not argue that he is a Chritstian

Secondly, what about responding to RiverDad?
 
Flyersfan314 said:
By that same logic the men who committed 9/11 are not Muslims.
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Did the men who committed 9/11 say that they were not religous muslim, had no contact with Allah, but believed in the values of islam?
 
Flyersfan314 said:
By that same logic the men who committed 9/11 are not Muslims.
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This is the false equivalence that is driving the liberals to so desperately want ABB to be a Christian for they believes that it gets them the Muslim Get Out Of Jail Card that they desire so very much.

The whole of Islam is a warrior-originated religion. It hasn't shed those key principles. The world is divided into two realms - The House of War and the House of Peace. When the 9/11 terrorists executed their terror deed in the name of Islam they had religious text backing them up.

Actions which are true to a religions precepts mean that the actions are not out of character with the religion. ABB can't point to the same type of precepts in Christianity.

Your motives are very transparent. Your desire to craft a reality that doesn't, but which you feel should dominate the discussion, doesn't work because it can't rely on reason and evidence to back it up.
 
RiverDad said:
So if ABB had called himself a liberal but had issued his manifesto just as it was, it would be hunky dory to categorize him as a liberal who rejected all the principles of the Norwegian socialist movement and instead was a liberal who embraced the principles of the Norwegian conservative parties along with the principles of his other philosophical choices?

All that would matter would be his claim to be a liberal?

As a tree, I don't buy that for a second.
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You're not a tree, and you're not being clever calling yourself a tree...

One is a matter of biology and science, and the other is a matter of philosophy and subjectivity... can you figure out which one is which?
 
SheWolf said:
You're not a tree, and you're not being clever calling yourself a tree...

One is a matter of biology and science, and the other is a matter of philosophy and subjectivity... can you figure out which one is which?
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Ok, let's say I call myself a socialist, because that's what I think you are. But I don't believe in wealth equality. I support socialism, because I want to rule the world. The workers are just there to benefit me and my friends. Am I socialist?

I love this, under the same logic. Hitler was a socialist. Right?
 
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SheWolf said:
You're not a tree, and you're not being clever calling yourself a tree...

One is a matter of biology and science, and the other is a matter of philosophy and subjectivity... can you figure out which one is which?
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Atheist: a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Christian: A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as recorded in the Canonical gospels and the letters of the New Testament. Central to the Christian faith is the belief that Jesus is the Messiah prophesied in the Hebrew Bible, the Son of God, and the savior of mankind from their sins.

A Christian Atheist is . . . . . ?

ABB's case might be a matter of philosophy and subjectivity if it was within the realm of definitional variance attached to the concept of what it means to be Christian. When it is so far divorced from the accepted variance of definition then it is no longer a matter of subjectivity, it now enters the realm of logic. One cannot logically reconcile the simultaneous belief in the existence of a supreme being with the rejection of the belief that there is a supreme being.
 
Anders got himself Baptize the described himself as a Christian. He was not because he did not behave as a Christian. Atah described himself as a Muslim, he was not because he did not behave as one. What one describes themselves is irrelevant. If I describe myself as smart and read lots of books it doesn't mean I am. You said that if someone describes themselves as a homosexual but doesn't like the same sex they are not homosexuals. Well thats my point.
 
Flyersfan314 said:
Anders got himself Baptize the described himself as a Christian. He was not because he did not behave as a Christian. Atah described himself as a Muslim, he was not because he did not behave as one. What one describes themselves is irrelevant. If I describe myself as smart and read lots of books it doesn't mean I am. You said that if someone describes themselves as a homosexual but doesn't like the same sex they are not homosexuals. Well thats my point.
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Everyone becomes baptazied in Norway. At least when he was young, everyone got baptazied and confirmed when they were 15. If you noticed, 30-40% believe in Christianity, most of them are old people. However, 90% of the population is a member of the church. Even if you leave the church, they have a tendancy to sign you up again. He is not a Christian, because he didn't act like one. He is not a Christian, because he says himself that he is not a religious Christian and only believes in the values of Christianity.
 
He didnt accept Jesus as his savior so he was not Christian. I agree with that. I think we got a little off topic here. My point is that beliefs are only a part of religion, morality and ethics are just as important. I don't consider the Westborro Church Christian for example. I dont consider the KKK Christian, both groups say they accept Christ but they don't act on Christian values.
 
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