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Is Anders Breivik an Atheist or a Christian?

What is Anders Breivik?

  • Total voters
    21
Hatuey said:
I don't get it, right wingers. Why all the fuss to try and distance yourselves from this man? I mean sure, I get that none of you espouse his ideas of a crusade and killing people but ideologically speaking, he is a right wing Christian fundamentalist.
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1.) You are a rare bird and a free thinker. I can't recall the last time I saw a liberal actually use the phrase "right wing" instead of "far right." It's like the political spectrum goes Communist-Socialist-Extreme Left-Far Left, Progressive, Liberal, Moderate, Far Right. So congratulations.

2.) It's a more than fair assessment to say this guy was right wing. Not so much Christian fundamentalist. That's the religious version of the far-right example above. Even if this guy was a Christian, there's nothing fundamentalist about him. Fundamentalists are the one's who are deep into the bible and are the most religious of the religious people.
 
RiverDad said:
1.) You are a rare bird and a free thinker. I can't recall the last time I saw a liberal actually use the phrase "right wing" instead of "far right." It's like the political spectrum goes Communist-Socialist-Extreme Left-Far Left, Progressive, Liberal, Moderate, Far Right. So congratulations.

2.) It's a more than fair assessment to say this guy was right wing. Not so much Christian fundamentalist. That's the religious version of the far-right example above. Even if this guy was a Christian, there's nothing fundamentalist about him. Fundamentalists are the one's who are deep into the bible and are the most religious of the religious people.
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He is a fundamentalist in that he believes in a return to the original presence of Christianity in Europe. He's a regular modern day preacher of Christendom. Christians for much of history wouldn't have recognized having a "personal relationship with God". That, from my understanding of history is a 19th century Protestant wording of one's religious background. The separation created by the Catholic church and followers of the church made it impossible for most of the faithful to have a relationship with god that could be called 'personal'. This leads me to the assertion that for the overwhelming majority of Christianity's existence, it has been a social, cultural and moral institution and Anders Breivik's is in fact a Christian in the historical sense of the word.
 
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He's a dumbass. Next?
 
Hatuey said:
He is a fundamentalist in that he believes in a return to the original presence of Christianity in Europe. He's a regular modern day preacher of Christendom. Christians for much of history wouldn't have recognized having a "personal relationship with God". That, from my understanding of history is a 19th century Protestant wording of one's religious background. The separation created by the Catholic church and followers of the church made it impossible for most of the faithful to have a relationship with god that could be called 'personal'. This leads me to the assertion that for the overwhelming majority of Christianity's existence, it has been a social, cultural and moral institution and Anders Breivik's is in fact a Christian in the historical sense of the word.
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You got that backwards. The Protestants seperated from the Catholic church. Hence, the "protest" part. It's the Catholics that believe you have to go through a priest to talk to God.
 
Does it matter what the **** he is? The SOB killed a bunch of children for God sakes! However Im not surprised people are using this sick **** for their own political ends.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Wake, making a poll doesn't change facts.
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The point of my polls is to gather data from both sides; I desire clarification.

This situation is volatile, a situation that I don't have enough comprehensive data to form an argument. Merely, I know Breivik called himself a Christian, but then again I could kill people and call myself a Christian. Doesn't make me one. The thing is, radical Muslims follow the fullness of the Koran---they KEEL the infidels.

There isn't a majority OR a minority that stones homosexuals or stones disrespectful children, etc. Do you know what Sharia Law is? I had the "pleasure" of watching a man have his hands cut off for stealing---saw it on YouTube. Crap like that happens under Sharia Law in those nations. Christians don't do that.

There's a difference between nutjobs who think they're Christian, and a large following of zealous Muslims who follow the Koran "in full."

Cold Highway said:
Does it matter what the **** he is? The SOB killed a bunch of children for God sakes! However Im not surprised people are using this sick **** for their own political ends.
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It is human nature to find examples to further our agendas.
 
So Christians who kill are not Christian, but Muslims who kill do so because they are Muslim. Your agenda is transparent. Your mind is closed and your OP duplicitous.
 
Manc Skipper said:
So Christians who kill are not Christian, but Muslims who kill do so because they are Muslim. Your agenda is transparent. Your mind is closed and your OP duplicitous.
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By not thoroughly reading the post and you making blanket statements, you're showing that it is indeed you who is close-minded. You are oversimplifying matters and insulting me, to boot. It is indeed true that the terrorists who take the texts seriously and kill... take the texts seriously.
 
RiverDad said:
If I say that I am a tree, does that mean that I am a tree?\

For a self-affirmation to be valid it has to be checked against reality. He writes this about his position:

If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform.​

He's disclaiming a religious tie to Christianity and proclaiming a cultural tie to Christianity. His view on this issue makes allowance for a category of people he labels as Christian Atheists. Think about that - people who believe in Jesus/God and who also reject Jesus/God. The only way to make sense of Christian Atheists is to define Christian as a cultural identifier - now that term is something like European (embedded in a culture that was born in the Christian experience) Atheist.
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You are doing what you claimed I was doing, picking and choosing quotes outside of overall context. You are also making the mistake that you are the christian police, that you get to decide what is and is not christian. Does not work that way. Only he knows if he is a christian, and he explicitly claims to be one.

No, the real problem is that some people want to cram him into Christianity so that they can make a meta-point, as you're doing, so that the same meta-point can be extended to Islam. This is as transparent as glass. Logic, and evidence, are thrown out the window in order to advance a nakedly plain political argument.
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I am not trying to make any "meta-point". A question was asked, I gave the answer. The irony in your last sentence is overwhelming.
 
Wake said:
By not thoroughly reading the post and you making blanket statements, you're showing that it is indeed you who is close-minded. You are oversimplifying matters and insulting me, to boot. It is indeed true that the terrorists who take the texts seriously and kill... take the texts seriously.
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Regardless of which text they are taking seriously. This guy took your text seriously. Instead of trying to deny this, why not do something to make sure your text isn't abused this way again in the future?
 
Wake said:
By not thoroughly reading the post and you making blanket statements, you're showing that it is indeed you who is close-minded. You are oversimplifying matters and insulting me, to boot. It is indeed true that the terrorists who take the texts seriously and kill... take the texts seriously.
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Which part of what you said differs from my commentary?

Wake said:
...I know Breivik called himself a Christian, but then again I could kill people and call myself a Christian. Doesn't make me one. The thing is, radical Muslims follow the fullness of the Koran---they KEEL the infidels...
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Self described Christian Breivik kills to preserve Christianity, but according to your "logic" this is incompatible with Christianity. Any "radical" Muslim, however is merely expressing the tenets of Islam. (in your mind). You betray your biased judgemental treatment of different branches of the same Abrahamic faith in the framing of your alleged quest for clarification. Confirmation of your bigotry is what you actually seek.
 
He sure doesn't follow Christianity. There's a lot of room between Christian and atheist though.
 
Wake said:
Basically, IS Anders Breivik a Christian? I'm getting a lot of conflicting data from Christian organizations to, lol, Media Matters.

Can you help me with this? It seems Breivik will eternally be deemed a Christian to further their pro-Islam.stance...
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I consider him a Christian because he calls himself a Christian. A Christian is simply someone who believes that Jesus Christ was the son of God and died for our sins. Who are you or I to judge his faith?

and btw, the New Testament is clear as to which Christians are not real Christians, and those those who commit murder are not listed as being not real Christians.
 
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Manc Skipper said:
Self described Christian Breivik kills to preserve Christianity, but according to your "logic" this is incompatible with Christianity. Any "radical" Muslim, however is merely expressing the tenets of Islam. (in your mind). You betray your biased judgemental treatment of different branches of the same Abrahamic faith in the framing of your alleged quest for clarification. Confirmation of your bigotry is what you actually seek.
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I haven't made up my mind.

Saying I have confirmation bigotry/bias is a bit ironic, imho, because we all do that. Furthermore, calling people bigots in debate is a mistake.

I can understand your view, but you know there are major differences in these religions. There is no sect of Christianity that's stuck in the 6-7th century, that is a culture based on killing through Jihad.

You know there were many reformations within Christianity. They don't have a subculture that's stuck far in the past that follows pretty much all of the violent texts of the Koran.
 
Wake said:
...Saying I have confirmation bigotry/bias is a bit ironic, imho, because we all do that. Furthermore, calling people bigots in debate is a mistake...
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What if they constantly and consistently express bigotry?
 
Thunder said:
What if they constantly and consistently express bigotry?
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Who the beck are you to judge bigotry? You're as biased as most other members here.
 
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Wake said:
Who the beck are you to judge bigotry? You're as biased as most other members here.[/B]
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someone who expresses religious/ethnic/racisl bias, prejudice, bigotry, is a bigot.

I'm sorry if this simple truth bothers you.
 
God forbid we take a nuanced view of this. The man killed 76 people, so he's going to have some strange views. He appears to have been religious, but his violence was more based on culture than some Christian Jihad.

Before anyone attacks me for being "Islamophobic," I know of many examples of modern, non-Muslim, religious extremists.
 
Wake said:
...Basically, IS Anders Breivik a Christian? I'm getting a lot of conflicting data from Christian organizations to, lol, Media Matters.

Can you help me with this? It seems Breivik will eternally be deemed a Christian to further their pro-Islam.stance...
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what is "pro-Islamic" about labeling Breivik a Christian?

I am not a Muslim nor do I promote Islam, and yet I consider this guy to be a Christian.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
God forbid we take a nuanced view of this. The man killed 76 people, so he's going to have some strange views. He appears to have been religious, but his violence was more based on culture than some Christian Jihad.

Before anyone attacks me for being "Islamophobic," I know of many examples of modern, non-Muslim, religious extremists.
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it appears that some folks here believe that the only religious group that can be labeled terrorists or extremists, are Muslims.
 
Thunder said:
it appears that some folks here believe that the only religious group that can be labeled terrorists or extremists, are Muslims.
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No, they are just saying Breivik isn't a christian, because he says that he is not a religous christian, but he believes in the social values of Christianity. He did his confirmation when he was 15, but everyone does that regardless if they believe or not.

I think few people would say that National Liberation Front of Tripura is not christian. That's a real Christian terrorist group. Don't forget that if Breivik converted to Islam. Liberals would say that he's not muslim.
 
Camlon said:
No, they are just saying Breivik isn't a christian, because he says that he is not a religous christian, but he believes in the social values of Christianity....
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Breivik considers himself to be a Christian.

A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus Christ was the song of God, Messiah, and died for the sins of mankind.

Therefore, only a mind-reader can know for sure whether or not he is a "true" Christian.
 
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From what I've read, Breivik stated he wasn't a religious Christian, but a cultural Christian. He also said he wasn't very religious, in general, and was proud of his Norse, Odinist heritage, e.g., heathen.

Therefore, I've concluded he was morally confused, and dangerously obsessed with counter-jihad ideology. Personally, I identify with that latter, but not at the expense of fundamental, Christian observance. Granted, in the future struggle, some compromises might have to be made for strategic and tactical expediency, but not in radical violation of Christian Just War doctrine.
 
Wake said:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...m-sentiment-mainstream-54.html#post1059721870

Basically, IS Anders Breivik a Christian? I'm getting a lot of conflicting data from Christian organizations to, lol, Media Matters.

Can you help me with this? It seems Breivik will eternally be deemed a Christian to further their pro-Islam.stance.

I'm currently searching for his own words, and I could really use your help with this. If it is so cut-and-dry, then let's put this issue to bed.
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I voted {please explain} for I do not understand this poll.

What does it matter what any person believes or does not believe , it is the deeds or choices he makes that truly matter.

For all humans have made good choices and bad, thus had good deeds and bad.:peace
 
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