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Who is responsible for the downgrading of the American credit status?

Who cause our AAA rating to drop?

  • Obama

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • The Democrats

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • The Republicans

    Votes: 11 35.5%

  • Other

    Votes: 16 51.6%
  • Total voters
    31
Councilman said:
Another case where we should have had the option to vote for all of the above.

Our economic debacle has been a long time in coming and has been the fast track to disaster since Obama came along.

This issue goes all the way back to 9-11 and panic was allowed to control what was being done to avoid more of the same and President Bush along with both houses of Congress got into the habit of throwing money at problems or perceived problems when a little bit of thought would have served us better.
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Goes back further. Our problems began when the US started to borrow money and spend more than the feds bring in.
 
mike2810 said:
Goes back further. Our problems began when the US started to borrow money and spend more than the feds bring in.
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It was in the '80s that the US went from a creditor nation to a debtor nation.
 
I blame Republicans, specifically the Tea Party, and here's why...

Until Speaker Boehner walked out of debt limit talks, the economy was making progress. I know that's hard for many people to believe, but let's look at the evidence.

The private sector was adding jobs; not in significant numbers, but there was private sector job growth. The DOW had made significant gains; it had climbed up to over 12,740 pts - a level not reached since May 2008. Then suddenly the markets began to slowly tick downward until on August 4 the DOW plunged to 11,383 points, a difference of -1,357 points. To put it in perspective, within a 24-hour period between August 4-5, the DOW lost 513 points! That's just 2-days after the debt limit was raised and it's all because investors, mostly in foreign markets, lost confidence in the U.S. dollar because the debt limit talks drug on. Had Republicans agreed to a clean debt limit from the start and Tea Partiers not insisted on including deficit reduction measure to the debt bill, the economy could have continue making progress and all the other issues related to debt and deficit reduction could have been handle separately.

(See CNBC.com's interactive stock charts going out from 5-days to 5 years for details)
 
Objective Voice said:
I blame Republicans, specifically the Tea Party, and here's why...

Until Speaker Boehner walked out of debt limit talks, the economy was making progress. I know that's hard for many people to believe, but let's look at the evidence.

The private sector was adding jobs; not in significant numbers, but there was private sector job growth. The DOW had made significant gains; it had climbed up to over 12,740 pts - a level not reached since May 2008. Then suddenly the markets began to slowly tick downward until on August 4 the DOW plunged to 11,383 points, a difference of -1,357 points. To put it in perspective, within a 24-hour period between August 4-5, the DOW lost 513 points! That's just 2-days after the debt limit was raised and it's all because investors, mostly in foreign markets, lost confidence in the U.S. dollar because the debt limit talks drug on. Had Republicans agreed to a clean debt limit from the start and Tea Partiers not insisted on including deficit reduction measure to the debt bill, the economy could have continue making progress and all the other issues related to debt and deficit reduction could have been handle separately.

(See CNBC.com's interactive stock charts going out from 5-days to 5 years for details)
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Of course. :roll:
Partisanship was guaranteed to show up in this thread.

Edit:
This here is precisely the point I was making when I said "Americans" were to blame.
"Ohh no, it's the other team, not mine we're innocent."
 
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My answer: Everyone that ever voted for deficit spending.

If you are talking about the straw that broke the camel's back, Obamacare. The added liabilities put the government in a position that made repayment less likely.
 
ksu_aviator said:
My answer: Everyone that ever voted for deficit spending.

If you are talking about the straw that broke the camel's back, Obamacare. The added liabilities put the government in a position that made repayment less likely.
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This is just a duplicate of OV's comment, with a pro right spin.
 
Councilman said:
Another case where we should have had the option to vote for all of the above.

Our economic debacle has been a long time in coming and has been the fast track to disaster since Obama came along.

This issue goes all the way back to 9-11 and panic was allowed to control what was being done to avoid more of the same and President Bush along with both houses of Congress got into the habit of throwing money at problems or perceived problems when a little bit of thought would have served us better.
Click to expand...

I love the way people continue to try and blame this President for this nation's economic problems when clearly things were slowly improving until recently. No, the private sector wasn't creating jobs in record numbers, but when you have Republican leaders (Governors and state legislators) enacting measures that forced people out of work, haven't put forward a jobs bill that has purposely languished in Congress since Republicans took over the House, and have used budget and debt limit legislation to when brownie points for themselves instead of doing what's in the best interest of the nation and the American people, it's no wonder the President's job has gotten tougher.

People really do need to wake up and see what's really happening. Taxes are still low; in fact the Bush tax cuts were extended to 12/31/2012. Except for financial reforms, none of the President's long-term initiatives have gone into affect. Not the PPAC, not cap-N-trade (which I don't think passed the Senate, just the House). So, how people can lay blame on the President for what's happening now in our nation's economy when clearly things were slowly improving is beyond me. The problems lay with obstructionist measures by Republicans.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Of course. :roll:
Partisanship was guaranteed to show up in this thread.

Edit:
This here is precisely the point I was making when I said "Americans" were to blame.
"Ohh no, it's the other team, not mine we're innocent."
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The question was who is to blame for America's credit crisis. I gave you my answer which I believe to be the correct answer based on the evidence. If you choose to ignore it, I can't help you.
 
Objective Voice said:
The question was who is to blame for America's credit crisis. I gave you my answer which I believe to be the correct answer based on the evidence. If you choose to ignore it, I can't help you.
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No you're masquerading your partisanship with pseudo intellectualism.
There are multiple and varied reasons, where there aren't many innocent parties involved.

Accusing anyone but Americans is just more of the same blame game.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
No you're masquerading your partisanship with pseudo intellectualism.
There are multiple and varied reasons, where there aren't many innocent parties involved.

Accusing anyone but Americans is just more of the same blame game.
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And where do you hail from tough guy? Canada? Mexico? Europe? The great unknown?

And no, I'm not masquerading anything. I'm telling the truth as I know it/see it. America's captains of finance surely brought this country into economic disarray; that is true. But things were starting to look alittle bit better until the November 2010 midterm elections. They've gotten progressively worse since then, but not because of anything the President or Democrats did. Again, none of the President's economic legislations had taken hold except for finance reform and a small portion of the PPAC (high risk pools). Otherwise, things were improving ever so slightly until that time. All one need do is go back and look at the evidence. Look at the jobs numbers from January 2009 to May/June of this year. Look at the stock market indexes and see if they had been ticking upward until recently. Unemployment had been holding at or around 9.1-9.2% and could have begun to move downward had Republicans done the right thing once they gained control of the House. But instead, they've done more to be obstructionist than they have in really trying to move the country forward.

The President and Democrats have given up so much ground and still people won't see the Republicans for who they truly are - obstructionist.
 
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Believe the correct and popular answer is both parties are responsible. They overspend because it generates "bacon" and gets them re-elected.

But the ironic twist to this credit rating downgrade is that it could turn out to be a blessing in disguise. It may provide the cover for politicians to finally take responsible actions to get this federal spending juggernaut under control.

Because now we have the evidence that "it really can happen to us."




.
 
I still blame left-handed people. Why we haven't worked to eradicate these mutants from our population is beyond me.
 
Cole said:
Believe the correct and popular answer is both parties are responsible. They overspend because it generates "bacon" and gets them re-elected.

But the ironic twist to this credit rating downgrade is that it could turn out to be a blessing in disguise. It may provide the cover for politicians to finally take responsible actions to get this federal spending juggernaut under control.

Because now we have the evidence that "it really can happen to us."
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We agree here for sure. So, let's see if there becomes this spirit of cooperation once Congress returns from their little vacation by September 1.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Of course. :roll:
Partisanship was guaranteed to show up in this thread.

Edit:
This here is precisely the point I was making when I said "Americans" were to blame.
"Ohh no, it's the other team, not mine we're innocent."
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To be fair, he was not the first. I think cpwill was the first to go full retard.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
This is just a duplicate of OV's comment, with a pro right spin.
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I think you are delusional. The two posts have nothing in common. His looks to blame one person/group while I blamed every congress and president since deficit spending began. My only caveat was that the last major policy is what put us over the top. My opinion comes from the text of the S&P news release and the logical conclusion that anyone that contributed to the hay pile is responsible when the last straw caused the reaction.
 
Where's the "All of the above" option?
 
Objective Voice said:
Gee, I wonder who started us down that path? Hmmm....???
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Democrats who ran the Congress. You may recall how everyone gleefully talks now about how Reagan increased taxes? That was part of a deficit reduction deal that the Democrats reneged on - Reagan agreed to raise taxes one dollar for every three that they cut spending.... then he signed the tax increase.... and the cuts never happened. They did the same thing to George H.W., which is why of course they have zero credibility when they offer a similar deal now.


as for the Tea Party Republicans, they are the only ones who have kept us from worse at this point, they are the reason Washington is talking about deficit reduction instead of how to spend more. as for deals that would have fixed this - S&P said they wanted at least $4T in deficit reduction. The House Republicans passed a plan that would have cut $6T. Democrats rejected that. So House Republicans passed a plan that would have balanced the budget. Democrats rejected that. So, (trepidaciously, no doubt) Republican House Leadership agreed to a $4T plan so long as no more than $800 Bn came from increased revenues. Democrat leadership (specifically the White House) at first agreed and then came back and rejected that.


When did S&P downgrade it's outlook? After President Obama responded to the House 2012 Budget by announcing a huge "response" speech, inviting the Republican Leadership to attend, and then accusing them of going after autistic kids and people's grandmothers. That's when they realized that "Washington" wasn't serious.
 
cpwill said:
Democrats who ran the Congress. You may recall how everyone gleefully talks now about how Reagan increased taxes? That was part of a deficit reduction deal that the Democrats reneged on - Reagan agreed to raise taxes one dollar for every three that they cut spending.... then he signed the tax increase.... and the cuts never happened. They did the same thing to George H.W., which is why of course they have zero credibility when they offer a similar deal now.


as for the Tea Party Republicans, they are the only ones who have kept us from worse at this point, they are the reason Washington is talking about deficit reduction instead of how to spend more. as for deals that would have fixed this - S&P said they wanted at least $4T in deficit reduction. The House Republicans passed a plan that would have cut $6T. Democrats rejected that. So House Republicans passed a plan that would have balanced the budget. Democrats rejected that. So, (trepidaciously, no doubt) Republican House Leadership agreed to a $4T plan so long as no more than $800 Bn came from increased revenues. Democrat leadership (specifically the White House) at first agreed and then came back and rejected that.


When did S&P downgrade it's outlook? After President Obama responded to the House 2012 Budget by announcing a huge "response" speech, inviting the Republican Leadership to attend, and then accusing them of going after autistic kids and people's grandmothers. That's when they realized that "Washington" wasn't serious.
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I knew it wasn't serious long before that. I really think the leaders of S & P did too.

No one in Washington is willing to support the kinds of cuts and tax increases that are necessary to bring the budget into balance. Who can blame them? We'd at least vote them out of office, if not run them out of town on a rail if they were to tell the truth and take decisive action. Too many people still expect a free lunch.
 
Objective Voice said:
Gee, I wonder who started us down that path? Hmmm....???
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Congress. they develop the budget which the Presidents signs or veto's. It is pointless to blame anyone party. Overtime each have been in control or a divided house.
 
Tucker Case said:
I'm afraid that my son might be left-handed. Do you think Casey Anthony is looking for a nanny job?
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I wouldn't go that far(yet). Do what we do with stroke patients. It's called constraint therapy. In order to get them to use their weakened side again, you constrain the good side. In this case you will do the opposite. constrain the bad (left) side, and force the use of his good (right).
 
cpwill said:
Democrats who ran the Congress. You may recall how everyone gleefully talks now about how Reagan increased taxes? That was part of a deficit reduction deal that the Democrats reneged on - Reagan agreed to raise taxes one dollar for every three that they cut spending.... then he signed the tax increase.... and the cuts never happened. They did the same thing to George H.W., which is why of course they have zero credibility when they offer a similar deal now.


as for the Tea Party Republicans, they are the only ones who have kept us from worse at this point, they are the reason Washington is talking about deficit reduction instead of how to spend more. as for deals that would have fixed this - S&P said they wanted at least $4T in deficit reduction. The House Republicans passed a plan that would have cut $6T. Democrats rejected that. So House Republicans passed a plan that would have balanced the budget. Democrats rejected that. So, (trepidaciously, no doubt) Republican House Leadership agreed to a $4T plan so long as no more than $800 Bn came from increased revenues. Democrat leadership (specifically the White House) at first agreed and then came back and rejected that.


When did S&P downgrade it's outlook? After President Obama responded to the House 2012 Budget by announcing a huge "response" speech, inviting the Republican Leadership to attend, and then accusing them of going after autistic kids and people's grandmothers. That's when they realized that "Washington" wasn't serious.
Click to expand...

Of course the Democrats rejected both large spending plans...because Republicans refused to give on tax revenues of any kind. Pundits continue to say we have a spending problem. While that's true, we also have a revenue problem only very few people dare to acknowledge that.

Republicans don't want to raise taxes or close tax loopholes, so the only thing the Treasury really has left is cutting the interest rate on bonds to near zero. Bond rates have been the only buffer between lost income tax revenue and the debt that's kept us afloat all this time. But now that the "full faith and credit of the U.S." has been downgraded, the one thing the President tried to avoid will now happen.

Bond interest rates will increase; morgtage, credit card and car loan rates will also increase. Banks and private investors will find it harder to raise revenue. Small business owners will find it even more difficult to get loans. And for what? Because one side of the political divide didn't want to compromise under any circumstances even when they were getting over and above what they wanted.

I'm not alone in blaming Republicans for this mess our nation is in. There are plenty of others who see through the smoke screen.
 
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