View Poll Results: Are the Democrat Party and Obama Deliberatley Bankrupting America?

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  • Yes, as a mechanism to acheive wealth redistribution

    7 14.58%
  • Yes, to obtain more power

    10 20.83%
  • No

    31 64.58%
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Thread: Democrat Party and Obama Deliberately Bankrupting America

  1. #41
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    Re: Democrat Party and Obama Deliberately Bankrupting America

    Quote Originally Posted by AdminX View Post
    why would we even discuss the suggestion that high members of our political office want to destroy the country?

    think about the scary implications of what you're saying. if our leaders want to destroy our economy, they are essentially terrorists and that would call for nothing but revolution.

    you're making a pretty strong statement
    What strong statement am I making? I said that I don't believe that the Democrats and Obama want to destroy the economy. I said that their policies aren't helping just as the Republicans didn't help under Bush (although he did have a Dem congress too. Everyone shares the blame).
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  2. #42
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    Re: Democrat Party and Obama Deliberately Bankrupting America

    Obama is bankrupting America so that he can replace the system with the failing system in Europe: Wealth redistribution.
    Catch me if you can.

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    Re: Democrat Party and Obama Deliberately Bankrupting America

    Quote Originally Posted by AdminX View Post
    It's funny to see such an uproar when a country that, historically, had a hard Minority Exclusion rule, suddenly start throwing a bone to minorities. The fact is, political power is still very largely white. Very. Obama's few side-mandates for minorities or nothing more than an effort to balance the scale, not tip it on the side of blacks. Furthermore, "minority inclusion" is not 'minority requirement', it's simply an open door, for the minorities of this country, to elevate their societal status.

    You have to remember that the term "minority" is not assigned to a skin color, it's assigned to a class of nationality, which can include blond-hair blue-eye Swedes. Obama's central initiative has never been aimed at skin color, despite how confusing that may seem to you considering he's black. What Obama seeks to do is stop the Republican-base from shoving minorities further and further down the hole, due to laws that are already aimed against them, and put them in the position to actually participate in their country.

    As far as Grants and Contracts - please check your local government websites. Grants are designed to address special groups and segments within our country - Minorities, Widowers, Students, Tech, Farming, etc. Obama is famous for his grants and contracts aimed at Small Business. Yet you again cherry-pick any initiatives of his that address minorities, and act like it's all-encompassing of his actions.
    Look, if minorities want to elevate their position in America, the formula is clear and simple and many minorities have employed it (Thomas Sole, Walter Williams, Clarence Thomas, etc). The basis of this formula, however, is "work ethic" and too many minorities (particularly blacks) are not willing to work hard. They've been conditioned by government and race baiters (e.g., the justice brothers Sharpton and Jackson) to seek the "easy" route.

    The best thing government can do for minorities is educate them and get the hell out of their lives otherwise.

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    Re: Democrat Party and Obama Deliberately Bankrupting America

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Think of it this way. If I point out to you that the NBA has a higher proportion of black players than the US has white population would you conclude that this means that the NBA is designed to reward black people with positions on basketball teams? You're making a causal link where no link exists. Whites has a lot of power in the US but that doesn't mean that they're exercising that power to benefit whites, just like the NBA isn't purposely creating a situation which results in black players having a massively disproportionate presence. The NBA governs itself with race-neutral principles, as does the white power structure in the US, and the results that develop develop naturally and without design.



    So, if the NBA doesn't have any programs designed to sign more white and Asian players, then by default, black athletes have favoritism? No, that's not the process that is in play. Race neutral positions don't have to produce equal outcomes and when equal outcomes are not produced that is not evidence in support of the claim that favoritism is at work.



    I'm understanding your position just fine, I'm simply rejecting it totally. Biased lending isn't biased when credit scores are controlled for. Judicial bias is corrected when race-based crime statistics are referenced. Poor educational environments are irrelevant when we see the same differential race-based outcomes in high quality educational environments, for instance:

    Last month, the school was cited for the second year in a row, this time because 37 percent of black students failed to meet standards in English, and 55 percent of blacks and 40 percent of Hispanics failed in math.

    One of the standard complaints about No Child Left Behind by its critics in public education is that it punishes urban schools that are chronically underfinanced and already contending with a concentration of poor, nonwhite, bilingual and special-education pupils. Princeton could hardly be more different. It is an Ivy League town with a minority population of slightly more than 10 percent and per-student spending well above the state average. The high school sends 94 percent of its graduates to four-year colleges and offers 29 different Advanced Placement courses. Over all, 98 percent of Princeton High School students exceed the math and English standards required by No Child Left Behind.

    When you write that the "system is structured" in a way that discriminates against minorities you demonstrate that your mental model of how society function is at odds with the evidence. The system is structured to be race-neutral. The fact that the outcomes are not proportionate across race is not a design flaw in the system, or society at large. Equality doesn't require that minorities be granted "restitution" for that just infantilizes minorities and sends the message that they must be coddled and can't operate in a race-neutral society.



    What are you talking about? I quoted directly from ObamaCare legislation which mandates preferences for minorities in medical schools. The OP referenced the Financial Reform act which created departments designed to foster race-favoritism. Those are concrete references.



    Here's one that just broke last month:

    In what could be a repeat of the easy-lending cycle that led to the housing crisis, the Justice Department has asked several banks to relax their mortgage underwriting standards and approve loans for minorities with poor credit as part of a new crackdown on alleged discrimination, according to court documents reviewed by IBD.

    Prosecutions have already generated more than $20 million in loan set-asides and other subsidies from banks that have settled out of court rather than battle the federal government and risk being branded racist. An additional 60 banks are under investigation, a DOJ spokeswoman says.

    No Job, No Problem

    Settlements include setting aside prime-rate mortgages for low-income blacks and Hispanics with blemished credit and even counting "public assistance" as valid income in mortgage applications.

    In several cases, the government has ordered bank defendants to post in all their branches and marketing materials a notice informing minority customers that they cannot be turned down for credit because they receive public aid, such as unemployment benefits, welfare payments or food stamps.



    What private foundations do with the scholarships they offer is immaterial to the question of what our government, the government of all the citizens of the US, does with respect to discriminating on the basis of race. Obama's administration is neck-deep in pushing race-based policies and you not wanting that to be true doesn't erase it from happening.



    Another red herring. Bush is irrelevant. The issue is that you took an Obama statement and presented it as though it was a slam dunk refutation. That would be like someone arguing that the moon is made of cheese and then linking to Biden saying "the moon is made of cheese." The fact that Biden said that wouldn't make it true.
    I haven't the energy to address all this, because there's so many directions the debate can take. But I'm going to give this one last go-around....

    I get what you're trying to say with the NBA, but actually, and unfortunately, the NBA has faced criticism for red-lining certain hometowns and being more sympathetic to drafting athletes from minority backgrounds. For that reason, I don't feel comfortable arguing on the premise of the NBA because it's also guilty of the same kind of discrimination I'm talking about. Black athletes do get favoritism to a degree, just like white rappers have to try 10x as hard to get recognition and respect in the music industry - even though so many white rappers have talent. Like the Rap world, Hip Hop is a cultural thing in a lot of respects. ---> Like I said, there's so many directions I can take with all your talking-points.

    Is the system structured to be "race-neutral" like you said? Yes. But you have to understand that just because the black-and-white print defines a system of equality, that doesn't mean culturally it's actually executed that way. For example, 15 years ago, even though Consumer Lending policies were "race-neutral", it was common practice among Mortgage Lenders to Red-Line minority neighborhoods, defy policy, and purposely Decline those minorities for loans. This is a proven fact. Plus I am a Loan Officer - we are well aware of this detrimental practice against minorities...even though they were working under "Race-Neutral" policies.

    About your 'De-Facto' example. What's scary is you just proved my point and don't realize.

    You just stated yourself, the leniency on Minorities was called due to alleged discrimination. Again, like I've always stated, balancing the scales back to equal, considering they were tilted towards whites. It wasn't just a random, "hey, let's give minorities advantages, ya know, just because".

    About Obama, I'm just not buying your argument that he's pushing race-based initiatives. I understand exactly what positioning you're taking, and anyone would be hard-pressed to express it as clearly as you have, but what you call race-based, I call minority-based. I just don't understand why you feel fighting for the working-class is some chant of "black power".

    I especially take issue with your Mortgage arguments because again, I'm a Loan Officer and I've done mortgage lending and I assure you, there's nothing in the books that give any advantages to anyone. You don't know how heart-breaking it is for me to have to turn an older minority single-parent families away from their dream home because they don't fit credit criteria - but if I were to give any favors, I'd lose my job.

    And as far as your last comment about Bush/Obama...you said nothing at all. You merely made the assertion that I didn't really make a point, but you made none at all.

  5. #45
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    Re: Democrat Party and Obama Deliberately Bankrupting America

    Quote Originally Posted by AdminX View Post
    About your 'De-Facto' example. What's scary is you just proved my point and don't realize.

    You just stated yourself, the leniency on Minorities was called due to alleged discrimination. Again, like I've always stated, balancing the scales back to equal, considering they were tilted towards whites. It wasn't just a random, "hey, let's give minorities advantages, ya know, just because".
    Have you ever heard of "lawfare?" It's a strong-arm tactic that uses the law to intimidate another party.

    There is a galaxy of difference between discrimination and an allegation of discrimination.

    I can allege many things about you, even though I don't know anything about you. Of all of the things that I allege, none of them have to be true. Secondly, I can count on the allegations doing the damage without actually having to get around to, you know, actually proving that the allegations that I leveled against you are true.

    This is a common tactic that comes from the racial hucksterism that Obama was schooled in.

  6. #46
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    Re: Democrat Party and Obama Deliberately Bankrupting America

    Quote Originally Posted by AdminX View Post
    Obama has consistently stated from Day 1 that his interests lie in the benefit of all Americans. That's it - Americans, specifically blue-collar. He has never isolated his interests or agendas to black people. I think the man is smart enough to realize that accusing him [a black man] of serving the interests of blacks, would be a likely accusation against him.

    And even with no substant proof, you're making that accusation.
    Why do you start with All Americans then go right into Specifically Blue Collar?

    All Americans would be All Americans.

  7. #47
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    Re: Democrat Party and Obama Deliberately Bankrupting America

    Quote Originally Posted by LibLoather View Post
    Too many conservatives think Obama is an incompetent, idealistic boob in the mold of Jimmy Carter. This is a grave mistake as I think he knows exactly what he's doing which is to run the national debt so high (via spending on programs that disproportionately benefit blacks) so as to create a financial crisis that forces us to accept much higher and broader federal taxes. Thus, achieving his wealth redistribution utopia.

    Obama and his wife see everything through the prism of race, they believe blacks are disproportionately poor due to racism and only government can equalize the situation. What they fail to realize is that wealth in America is distributed, for the most part, by talent, intelligence, and work ethic.
    Your are not RushLimbaugh, are you ?
    And why do you think blacks are poor ?

  8. #48
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    Re: Democrat Party and Obama Deliberately Bankrupting America

    Quote Originally Posted by AdminX View Post
    Is the system structured to be "race-neutral" like you said? Yes. But you have to understand that just because the black-and-white print defines a system of equality, that doesn't mean culturally it's actually executed that way. For example, 15 years ago, even though Consumer Lending policies were "race-neutral", it was common practice among Mortgage Lenders to Red-Line minority neighborhoods, defy policy, and purposely Decline those minorities for loans. This is a proven fact. Plus I am a Loan Officer - we are well aware of this detrimental practice against minorities...even though they were working under "Race-Neutral" policies.
    Do you think red lining these areas was because minorities lived there or because of the properties in the area.

    Properties in minorities areas tend to have graffitti and are not in the best of condition.

    I am not sure I would want to loan money on properties like that either.

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    Re: Democrat Party and Obama Deliberately Bankrupting America

    Quote Originally Posted by LibLoather View Post
    Look, if minorities want to elevate their position in America, the formula is clear and simple and many minorities have employed it (Thomas Sole, Walter Williams, Clarence Thomas, etc). The basis of this formula, however, is "work ethic" and too many minorities (particularly blacks) are not willing to work hard. They've been conditioned by government and race baiters (e.g., the justice brothers Sharpton and Jackson) to seek the "easy" route.

    The best thing government can do for minorities is educate them and get the hell out of their lives otherwise.
    You said.......... "too many blacks are not willing to work hard". Unbelievable. And I get a Trolling offense, while you not only make a blanket statement, but make a racial blanket statement.

  10. #50
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    Re: Democrat Party and Obama Deliberately Bankrupting America

    Quote Originally Posted by AdminX View Post
    You said.......... "too many blacks are not willing to work hard". Unbelievable. And I get a Trolling offense, while you not only make a blanket statement, but make a racial blanket statement.
    He didn't make a "blanket statement." A blanket statement covers everyone in the group. He said " too many." What he said is either true or false. It's a testable statement. Here's a report from a few years back as published in the New York Times:

    The share of young black men without jobs has climbed relentlessly, with only a slight pause during the economic peak of the late 1990's. In 2000, 65 percent of black male high school dropouts in their 20's were jobless that is, unable to find work, not seeking it or incarcerated. By 2004, the share had grown to 72 percent, compared with 34 percent of white and 19 percent of Hispanic dropouts. Even when high school graduates were included, half of black men in their 20's were jobless in 2004, up from 46 percent in 2000.

    Here is another report from the New York Times:
    A new study of black male employment trends has come up with the following extremely depressing finding: ''By 2002, one of every four black men in the U.S. was idle all year long. This idleness rate was twice as high as that of white and Hispanic males.''

    It's possible the rate of idleness is even higher, said the lead author of the study, Andrew Sum, who is director of the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University in Boston.

    ''That was a conservative count,'' he said. The study did not consider homeless men or those in jail or prison. It is believed that up to 10 percent of the black male population under age 40 is incarcerated.

    While some of the men not working undoubtedly were ill or disabled, the 25 percent figure is still staggeringly high. And for some segments of the black male population, the situation is even worse.

    Among black male dropouts, for example, 44 percent were idle year-round, as were nearly 42 of every 100 black men aged 55 to 64.

    Data seems to confirm the poster's statement. Why should he be accused of trolling for making true and supportable statements? Just because he runs counter to the blowing sunshine up everyone's skirt political correctness that rots our minds? I hope not.

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