View Poll Results: What about menís versus womanís rights to their babies? Select all that apply

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  • Regardless of the womanís choice, men should choose whether their baby will be born or not

    0 0%
  • A woman should be able to choose whether to give birth or not, regardless of the manís choice

    20 50.00%
  • If the man doesnít want a baby, he should be able to choose whether to give financial support or not

    20 50.00%
  • I am ďpro-choiceĒ (I think women should be able to choose to abort their babies if they want to)

    24 60.00%
  • I am "pro-life" (against abortion)

    8 20.00%
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Thread: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

  1. #81
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    A man should have the choice of wanting the child, when he finds out that it is actually his.
    Once he is informed, he should be given a time period to make or not make a committed choice.

    The options for parenthood should be equal for both parties involved.
    Well - it's not equal, because nature didn't make it equal.

    The only way to try ot make things somewhat balanced is to give men an outlet - like ending parental and therefor potential custody and child support issues.

    But at present there's nothing in place to slow or temporarily prevent a woman from having an abortion - going to court in a month from now isn't going to stop her. So I think there needs to be some sort of regulation or intervention - almost like a reference network.
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgarath View Post
    mur•der/ˈmərdər/
    Noun: The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.


    I responded to what murder is above. The unborn has the possibility of being human. Therefore, you are possibly killing a human being, possibly committing murder- I certainly do not approve.
    Then abortion is not by your own definition "murder", because abortion is legal, not "unlawful". Furthermore, we've already established that a non-viable foetus is not a human being, rather is a potential human being, the termination of a pregnancy is not "unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by another."

    The use of the word "murder" and "babies" in abortion debates are disingenuous expressions meant only to inflame and insult, nothing more.

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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Furthermore, we've already established that a non-viable foetus is not a human being
    Wait, when was this? I don't recall anyone ever disproving biology, genetics, and embryology in this thread. Sounds to me like you're full of ****.

    The use of the word "murder" and "babies" in abortion debates are disingenuous expressions
    Says the woman who says the changed species... Tel me, at what age did you DNA suddenly become and human and what were you before?

  4. #84
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Then abortion is not by your own definition "murder", because abortion is legal, not "unlawful". Furthermore, we've already established that a non-viable foetus is not a human being, rather is a potential human being.
    I already explained my response to the first point- the correct laws are not necessary always in place. Just because abortion is legal by our current system doesn't mean it should be. If the laws appropriately addressed the case, abortion would be illegal. But more importantly- you say that a non-viable foetus is not a human being. Might I ask whose already established that, and can I see proof of that? If someone has proved that, it might change my views completely, but I have never seen absolute and conclusive evidence. Personally, I actually think that potential to be a human being is sufficient, but I already know that that's a subjective opinion which many people don't agree with.

    I disagree with your last statement. Murder, IMO, is exactly the appropriate term. Babies, which I do not think I have said, is not. If I have said babies, it was probably not in reference to the unborn, since they are not babies but unborn. They are also not classified as children. The unborn is simply a being with a 50% chance of having attained human being status. That opinion will only change when someone can provide absolute evidence that the unborn, at some stage or any stage, is not a human being.

  5. #85
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Flag View Post
    Yes, because the woman has no role to play and no options available to her if she wished to avoid pregnancy...

    I remember a time when women wanted to be equal and independent, making their own decisions and being responsible for their own lives and decisions...

    What ever happened to that? Why? She has decided to risk pregnancy and already decided on a course of action if that occurs. If she does not secure any commitment from the man before proceeding, why should she not be responsible for her decision?

    You seem to think women are mentally deficient creatures incapable of forethought and personal responsibility. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps they neither need nor want for your paternalistic 'looking after' them?
    Red, I can tell you are a guru on abortion and the psychology of women. But that's where it ends. If you had been in the forum long enough to have read my many, many posts concerning every similar topic as this...then you'd know that I've made probably every point and argument that you have concerning abortion issues and women's rights or lack there of.

    Thanks for sharing your profound wisdom and knowledge anyway. I feel enlightened, as I'm sure all others do as well.
    Last edited by Removable Mind; 08-04-11 at 09:09 PM.

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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Flag View Post
    Wait, when was this? I don't recall anyone ever disproving biology, genetics, and embryology in this thread. Sounds to me like you're full of ****.


    Says the woman who says the changed species... Tel me, at what age did you DNA suddenly become and human and what were you before?
    A foetus is a "potential human being." Belgrath has already conceded that. In fact, he's also stated, amazingly, that there's only a 50% chance it is human at all!

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgarath View Post
    1 ...At any time from conception to birth, there is a 50% chance it is human.

    8. I apologize- I should have said the possibility of being a human being. Does that make that more clear?
    From now on I suggest speaking civilly if you wish a civil reply... or any reply at all, for that matter. Thanks.

  7. #87
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Flag View Post
    Why should a man be forced to pay for a child conceived by some slut at a massive gangbang any more than a woman should be forced to carry a child she conceived at that same gangbang? If she didn't want to be responsible for a child, she had plenty of options. Women today, with very few exceptions, have every opportunity to avoid pregnancy and/or childbirth. If you choose to have a child outside a committed relationship, that's your decision- and your responsibility.
    Because no one forced the man to participate in the promiscous sex. Any man who use the body of another person for their own selfish purposes deserves what he gets. (You see? I can play the morality game just as well as you can)

    I can see the argument for child support following divorce, but if the man has never made a commitment to be involved with this woman, then he has no obligation to hang around or provide for her baby should she choose to have a child outside a committed relationship without his say. She's a big girl who needs no man, remember? She can make her own decisions in life- and be responsible for them.

    And the father is just as responsible for his lack of commitment and his irresponsibility for fathering a child outside of a committed relationship. It takes two schmucks to make a baby outside of a committed relationship. He's a big boy too. He can make decisions and be responsible for them too.

    If it is her body alone and her decision alone, then it is also her responsibility alone.
    The abortion is her responsibility and she is the one who will pay the price, both literally and figuratively. But both parents are responsibility for the children they spawn

    She doesn't get to turn around and play the helpless little female card and demand the man come to her rescue after she has made a unilateral decision to have a child outside a committed relationship. If this is a problem, maybe it's time to reconsider whether she should be making such decisions on her own in the first place.
    She didn't make the baby on her own. Masturbation doesn't lead to pregnancy. Sex leads to pregnancy, and that take two. If that is problem, maybe it's time to reconsider if he should be making such decisions on his own in the first place. Maybe he should be locked up or otherwise prevented from having sex.

    You can have the patriarchal paradigm of men providing for, making decisions for, and being responsible for the helpless woman or you can do away with that paradigm and embrace the independence and liberty of the woman alone. You can't have both. Either we are partners in this decision or we are not. With the unilateral power of determination and decision-making comes unilateral responsibility for that decision. If my hand is kept from the decision of my child's fate and my status as a parent, then your hand is stayed when you seek to take my wallet from my pocket, and my earned income from it, to fund your decision.
    There is nothing patriarchical about holding BOTH parents responsible for the support of any children they produce. And if they are truly partners, then they both need to be held responsible.
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  8. #88
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    More importantly - why does this matter?

    I mean, abortion isn't cheap, it isn't easy for some women, and repeated abortions OR miscarriages can cause scarring so it's obviously ideal is accidental pregnancies never happen, or at least don't happen multiple times.

    But what exactly are you shooting at?

    To me, based on the "typical use" failure rates of all non-inserted/surgical contraceptives being so much higher than it needs to be, this is probably the result of so many years of "abstinence only sex-ed." Neither sex seems to have a consistently firm grasp on how to use contraception. It's true this can be remedied by doing some simple homework, but once you've taught kids sex is evil and contraception doesn't work they're unlikely to do it.
    Red states tend to have higher rates of teenage pregnancy than blue states. Abstinence only sex ed has been a proven failure.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgarath View Post
    I already explained my response to the first point- the correct laws are not necessary always in place. Just because abortion is legal by our current system doesn't mean it should be. If the laws appropriately addressed the case, abortion would be illegal. But more importantly- you say that a non-viable foetus is not a human being. Might I ask whose already established that, and can I see proof of that? If someone has proved that, it might change my views completely, but I have never seen absolute and conclusive evidence. Personally, I actually think that potential to be a human being is sufficient, but I already know that that's a subjective opinion which many people don't agree with.

    I disagree with your last statement. Murder, IMO, is exactly the appropriate term. Babies, which I do not think I have said, is not. If I have said babies, it was probably not in reference to the unborn, since they are not babies but unborn. They are also not classified as children. The unborn is simply a being with a 50% chance of having attained human being status. That opinion will only change when someone can provide absolute evidence that the unborn, at some stage or any stage, is not a human being.
    Sorry, buddy. I used your definitions, your words, all documented in this very thread. You don't get to move the goal posts just because I spiked the ball for a six-pointer and the game's over. Just dust yourself off and move to the next thread.

  10. #90
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Flag View Post
    Except that abortions rates remain high in states like California (5th in the nation), where you'd have a hard time arguing anything like 'abstinence only' has been seen. Now, the high rates of out-of-wedlock teen births in certain conservative states seem to indicate that AOE is a factor in teen pregnancy rates, but AOE is unable to explain the increase in abortions and teen pregnancies since RvW passed.

    Perhaps we should be looking at social-cultural factors that influence sexual promiscuity among our youth. Indeed it seems the more 'liberal' a woman is, the more likely she and her daughters to be sexually promiscuous. One must wonder why these girls know how to find the abortion store, but not a drug store. One would think condoms or the pill would be easier to find than an abortionist if one were actually thinking ahead and practicing personal responsibility.



    They're also unlikely to bother when you teach them that they can simply make the baby go away...
    The more liberal a state is, the lower the rate of teen pregnancy

    And the increase in the abortion rate since RvW has a pretty obvious reason for it; It was legal after RvW!!
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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