View Poll Results: What about menís versus womanís rights to their babies? Select all that apply

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  • Regardless of the womanís choice, men should choose whether their baby will be born or not

    0 0%
  • A woman should be able to choose whether to give birth or not, regardless of the manís choice

    20 50.00%
  • If the man doesnít want a baby, he should be able to choose whether to give financial support or not

    20 50.00%
  • I am ďpro-choiceĒ (I think women should be able to choose to abort their babies if they want to)

    24 60.00%
  • I am "pro-life" (against abortion)

    8 20.00%
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Thread: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

  1. #61
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Flag View Post
    Except that abortions rates remain high in states like California (5th in the nation), where you'd have a hard time arguing anything like 'abstinence only' has been seen. Now, the high rates of out-of-wedlock teen births in certain conservative states seem to indicate that AOE is a factor in teen pregnancy rates, but AOE is unable to explain the increase in abortions and teen pregnancies since RvW passed.

    Perhaps we should be looking at social-cultural factors that influence sexual promiscuity among our youth. Indeed it seems the more 'liberal' a woman is, the more likely she and her daughters to be sexually promiscuous. One must wonder why these girls know how to find the abortion store, but not a drug store. One would think condoms or the pill would be easier to find than an abortionist if one were actually thinking ahead and practicing personal responsibility.
    And conversely, children raised conservatively start having sex just as young and they are LESS likely to use contraception properly. And by the way, conservative girls get abortions too. When it's their abortion, somehow it's more acceptable to them. This phenomena is so common it has a name - "back-door abortion." Picket during the day, patron after dark.

    They're also unlikely to bother when you teach them that they can simply make the baby go away...
    Right, because it's not like abortions cost money or are generally unpleasant to go through, physically and, for some, emotionally.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 08-04-11 at 02:53 PM.

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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    I am absolutely against abortion, to start out with. I personally think that women shouldn't even have the right to an abortion. You had sex- the consequence of pregnancy is your problem, in 9 months you birth the kid and give it up for adoption if you don't want it. Either side, man or woman, should be able to veto the decision to abort- but if the man won't let the woman veto, he has to take full responsibility for the child. If the woman vetoes the abortion, she has to take full responsibility for the child. If both man and woman want to abort, I still think they shouldn't be able to, but if they have to be able to I won't protest as much. But if one parent wants to keep the child, I absolutely believe the child should not be aborted. I honestly don't care that you have to endure 9 months of pregnancy for it- that is something you agreed to when you had sex. As far as I am concerned, by having sex you agreed that a child was a possible result. Getting an abortion means that sex is purely recreational- child creation is a side effect which can be easily "fixed". I find that mentality to be quite sick. I recognize that abortions can be difficult, so don't whine to me about that- you're killing your own offspring. From my perspective, you should be in such mental anguish with the knowledge of what you're doing that the physical pain is almost irrelevant. Having sex is like every other action- it has consequences. Deal with the consequences like a mature adult.

  3. #63
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgarath View Post
    I am absolutely against abortion, to start out with. I personally think that women shouldn't even have the right to an abortion. You had sex- the consequence of pregnancy is your problem, in 9 months you birth the kid and give it up for adoption if you don't want it. Either side, man or woman, should be able to veto the decision to abort- but if the man won't let the woman veto, he has to take full responsibility for the child. If the woman vetoes the abortion, she has to take full responsibility for the child. If both man and woman want to abort, I still think they shouldn't be able to, but if they have to be able to I won't protest as much. But if one parent wants to keep the child, I absolutely believe the child should not be aborted. I honestly don't care that you have to endure 9 months of pregnancy for it- that is something you agreed to when you had sex. As far as I am concerned, by having sex you agreed that a child was a possible result. Getting an abortion means that sex is purely recreational- child creation is a side effect which can be easily "fixed". I find that mentality to be quite sick. I recognize that abortions can be difficult, so don't whine to me about that- you're killing your own offspring. From my perspective, you should be in such mental anguish with the knowledge of what you're doing that the physical pain is almost irrelevant. Having sex is like every other action- it has consequences. Deal with the consequences like a mature adult.
    Why are you against it? Also, how can abortion be prevented and what should happen to women who get illegal abortions?
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  4. #64
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgarath View Post
    I am absolutely against abortion, to start out with. I personally think that women shouldn't even have the right to an abortion. You had sex- the consequence of pregnancy is your problem, in 9 months you birth the kid and give it up for adoption if you don't want it. Either side, man or woman, should be able to veto the decision to abort- but if the man won't let the woman veto, he has to take full responsibility for the child. If the woman vetoes the abortion, she has to take full responsibility for the child. If both man and woman want to abort, I still think they shouldn't be able to, but if they have to be able to I won't protest as much. But if one parent wants to keep the child, I absolutely believe the child should not be aborted. I honestly don't care that you have to endure 9 months of pregnancy for it- that is something you agreed to when you had sex. As far as I am concerned, by having sex you agreed that a child was a possible result. Getting an abortion means that sex is purely recreational- child creation is a side effect which can be easily "fixed". I find that mentality to be quite sick. I recognize that abortions can be difficult, so don't whine to me about that- you're killing your own offspring. From my perspective, you should be in such mental anguish with the knowledge of what you're doing that the physical pain is almost irrelevant. Having sex is like every other action- it has consequences. Deal with the consequences like a mature adult.
    You never have sex purely for the fun of it?
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Why are you against it? Also, how can abortion be prevented and what should happen to women who get illegal abortions?
    There’s something that upsets me about the killing of beings that science has yet to prove aren’t human. Until someone can provide evidence that the unborn is not a human being, I will feel unhappy about killing them.
    Closing down abortion clinics is the first thing that comes to mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    You never have sex purely for the fun of it?
    I do- and I accept, that when I do that, if a child results I will do everything in my power to make sure the child isn’t aborted, and I will pay for however much of the child’s upbringing the woman deems I should pay. I would not be a good father figure- I only have sex with those who know me well enough to know that. I would stand out of the way, but would send however much money the woman needed to raise the child as best she could. If I can possibly prevent it, no child of mine will ever be aborted. I would consider that murder, and would at all costs avoid having any further contact with the woman who aborted. While I don’t know for sure whether or not that unborn was a human being or not, the 50% chance it was is plenty to deter me. I don’t understand why it isn’t enough to deter anyone else.

  6. #66
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    I haven't read the thread yet, but the OP and poll are rather convoluted, so I'll try to respond in a manner that may address both pre-birth and post-birth scenarios.

    Once pregnant, a woman has the absolute right to choose whether or not to bring the pregnancy to term, whether the man wants a child or not. If the woman chooses to end the pregnancy, I don't believe she has any duty to disclose that pregnancy to the father of the child.

    If the woman chooses to carry the child to term, I believe she has an absolute duty to inform the father. If the father wants to be a part of the child's life, the woman has an absolute duty to allow that. Legal papers should be prepared protecting the father's rights of visitation and child support. If the father does not want to be a part of the child's life, he should not be required to pay child support. Legal papers should be prepared whereupon the father relinquishes all parental rights, and further directs him not to contact the child until it is 18 years old.

    This is all based on the assumption that the woman is not married to the child's father. If they are indeed married, then the decision to terminate the pregnancy or carry to term should ideally be made jointly. If the married couple cannot agree, then again the mother's choice wins out regardless of the father's wishes. However, dissent over this, the most important decision a married couple can make, constitutes a breach of trust that will no doubt destroy the marriage itself. Legally, the father would be responsible for a child born of marriage regardless of whether he wanted the responsibility or not, but again I believe the woman should allow him to give up parental rights and not be responsible for child support, as above.

    In no case should the child's father ever be able to legally force a woman to carry to term a pregnancy she does not want.

  7. #67
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Polotick View Post
    I have no right to attempt to make that decision for another
    Nor does she have any right to make that decision for a man.

    Aint equality grand?

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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgarath View Post
    I am absolutely against abortion, to start out with. I personally think that women shouldn't even have the right to an abortion. You had sex- the consequence of pregnancy is your problem
    Wait for it...
    , in 9 months you birth the kid and give it up for adoption if you don't want it.
    So it's not about taking responsibility for one's child, but about pregnancy as a punishment that women deserve for taking enjoyment in sexual activity?

    Either side, man or woman, should be able to veto the decision to abort
    Wait... so you do want them to be allowed to abort, so that the 'right' to veto the decision is even a question? Please make up your mind.

    I honestly don't care that you have to endure 9 months of pregnancy for it- that is something you agreed to when you had sex. As far as I am concerned, by having sex you agreed that a child was a possible result.
    So we're back to pregnancy being a deserved punishment? What about AIDS? Should we ban contraceptives and HPV vaccines?
    Getting an abortion means that sex is purely recreational
    Yes, god forbid women enjoy sex? Oh, speaking of god... why is human physiology such that sexuality so divorced from reproduction in the first place? In most species, females are only sexually receptive during ovulation and cease to experience sexual desires after their fertile years or up or after the loss of sexual organs. This is not the case with humans, where sexual desire and pleasure has been so removed from reproduction that most zygotes never implant and we're extremely inefficient when it comes to making babies. It would appear god or nature disagrees with your premise that the two are somehow 'supposed' to so intertwined as to be indistinguishable each from the other

    -but I doubt you're interested in the facts.

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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Flag View Post
    So it's not about taking responsibility for one's child, but about pregnancy as a punishment that women deserve for taking enjoyment in sexual activity?
    It’s not punishment- it’s consequences. There’s a difference.

    Wait... so you do want them to be allowed to abort, so that the 'right' to veto the decision is even a question? Please make up your mind.
    No, but I recognize that the odds are against the unborn ever being given the right to live- at least not within my lifetime. So I am saying that, until the world recognizes that right, the man should be given the right to save his own child.

    So we're back to pregnancy being a deserved punishment? What about AIDS? Should we ban contraceptives and HPV vaccines?
    Pregnancy is a predictable consequence. Consequences happen when you do actions. By taking part in the action, regardless of the action and the consequence, you open yourself up to the consequence. The possibility of getting pregnant is the consequence of having sex. It’s not a punishment- it’s a result. There’s a difference.

    Yes, god forbid women enjoy sex? Oh, speaking of god... why is human physiology such that sexuality so divorced from reproduction in the first place? In most species, females are only sexually receptive during ovulation and cease to experience sexual desires after their fertile years or up or after the loss of sexual organs. This is not the case with humans, where sexual desire and pleasure has been so removed from reproduction that most zygotes never implant and we're extremely inefficient when it comes to making babies. It would appear god or nature disagrees with your premise that the two are somehow 'supposed' to so intertwined as to be indistinguishable each from the other.
    It doesn’t matter how inefficient we are when making babies. The case is very simple: you’re free to enjoy sex, do it whenever you want and however you want as far as I am concerned. But if you get pregnant as a result, you have to recognize it as your responsibility. You took the risk, nature took its course, and you got pregnant. It’s now your responsibility as a mother to hold the child for 9 months. When birth occurs, I don’t care if you keep the child or you give it up for adoption. But up until that point, if you get an abortion as far as I am concerned you’re murdering a helpless child.

  10. #70
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Flag View Post
    Nor does she have any right to make that decision for a man.

    Aint equality grand?
    Perhaps a woman wouldn't care if a man had an abortion or not. Your argument is flawed.

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