View Poll Results: What about menís versus womanís rights to their babies? Select all that apply

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  • Regardless of the womanís choice, men should choose whether their baby will be born or not

    0 0%
  • A woman should be able to choose whether to give birth or not, regardless of the manís choice

    20 50.00%
  • If the man doesnít want a baby, he should be able to choose whether to give financial support or not

    20 50.00%
  • I am ďpro-choiceĒ (I think women should be able to choose to abort their babies if they want to)

    24 60.00%
  • I am "pro-life" (against abortion)

    8 20.00%
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Thread: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

  1. #121
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The way I look at is long as abortion is legal as a means of birth control then the man should be able to legally opt out of any financial responsibilities for the child seeing how the man can not have any say in whether or not the woman has an abortion. If abortion becomes illegal except like to save the life of the mother then father should not be allowed to opt out of any financial responsibilities for the child. I am pro-life/anti-abortion meaning I oppose the legalization of abortion.
    The way I look at it is as long as vasectomy and abstinence is legal as a means of birth control, then the man should be held legally responsible for any child he fathers.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, there is no precedent there
    Oh, so this was already the case and you never had any argument in the first place?

    Then why did you waste out time?

  3. #123
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Moderator's Warning:
    Red Flag... you need to hold the personal accusations of ignorance and dishonesty to a minimum, and debate the topic instead of the poster. That goes for everyone else, also.

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  4. #124
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The way I look at it is as long as vasectomy and abstinence is legal as a means of birth control, then the man should be held legally responsible for any child he fathers.
    Except that a vasectomy is much more expensive than an early term abortion and it does more damage to the reproductive system than an abortion does. In addition, most women who are trying to get pregnant or who do not use birth control, have miscarriages without even knowing it. Often the woman thinks she is having a "heavy" period when it is actually a still birth. Around 50% of pregnancies are naturally miscarried. Therefore, an early term abortion (the (equivalent to an early term miscarriage) is much less painful, a far less risky and a much less expensive procedure and is far less potentially damaging to the reproductive system than a vasectomy is. Clearly, in trying to keep things fair, a vasectomy and an abortion are not at all comparable.
    ~ "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" ~

  5. #125
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The way I look at it is as long as vasectomy and abstinence is legal as a means of birth control, then the man should be held legally responsible for any child he fathers.
    In regard to your "abstinence" argument, if abstinence is a legal form of birth control for a man, it is also a legal form of birth control for a woman. Therefore, if both create a fertilized egg, both are equally responsible for the child. As long as abortion is legal, it is only fair for the father to at least have a say in whether he will support the child financially (if the mother decides to keep the baby), since he cannot choose whether or not to keep his child.

    I am curious .. are you for or against abortion?

    This is a relevant question, because if you are against abortion, then the above reasoning would not apply. However, if you are for abortion, the above reasoning is sound. Simply put, using the above mentioned reasoning, the mother keeps her right to choose (abort or birth) and the father keeps his right to choose as well (support (financially) or not support the mother's decision to birth the baby). I don't see how this is not fair .. it seems like the most logical and reasonable compromise available to us currently.
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  6. #126
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by naturalrights View Post
    Except that a vasectomy is much more expensive than an early term abortion and it does more damage to the reproductive system than an abortion does. In addition, most women who are trying to get pregnant or who do not use birth control, have miscarriages without even knowing it. Often the woman thinks she is having a "heavy" period when it is actually a still birth. Around 50% of pregnancies are naturally miscarried. Therefore, an early term abortion (the (equivalent to an early term miscarriage) is much less painful, a far less risky and a much less expensive procedure and is far less potentially damaging to the reproductive system than a vasectomy is. Clearly, in trying to keep things fair, a vasectomy and an abortion are not at all comparable.
    So what? It's not my problem
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #127
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by naturalrights View Post
    In regard to your "abstinence" argument, if abstinence is a legal form of birth control for a man, it is also a legal form of birth control for a woman. Therefore, if both create a fertilized egg, both are equally responsible for the child.
    That is exactly what I said, so why are you disagreeing with me?

    As long as abortion is legal, it is only fair for the father to at least have a say in whether he will support the child financially (if the mother decides to keep the baby), since he cannot choose whether or not to keep his child.
    The fathers irresponsibility in not using BC does not absolve him of his responsibility for caring for any child produced by said irresponsibility. His failure to use BC does not give him the right to force a woman to use BC.


    I am curious .. are you for or against abortion?

    This is a relevant question, because if you are against abortion, then the above reasoning would not apply. However, if you are for abortion, the above reasoning is sound. Simply put, using the above mentioned reasoning, the mother keeps her right to choose (abort or birth) and the father keeps his right to choose as well (support (financially) or not support the mother's decision to birth the baby). I don't see how this is not fair .. it seems like the most logical and reasonable compromise available to us currently.
    So you think that logic and reason change depending on who is talking?

    That is illogical nonsense
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #128
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Having an 8 month daughter and paying child support, while giving her mother more money and buying my daughter stuff here and there while saving for her future I think men need to be men and take care of their child. If you would like for them not to, then they should be listed on some site similar to child molesters showing they are pos dads.

    Her mother isn't very fair sometimes and does a lot to make it hard on me sometimes but every man needs to be a man and take care of their children as much as humanly possible. As for abortion it is a horrible thing and should only be used when someone can be medically harmed.
    "Weíre going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and thatís crazy." -Reagan

  9. #129
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The fathers irresponsibility in not using BC does not absolve him of his responsibility for caring for any child produced by said irresponsibility. His failure to use BC does not give him the right to force a woman to use BC.
    I don't I said anything about forcing a woman to use birth control .. try reading what I said again.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    So you think that logic and reason change depending on who is talking?

    That is illogical nonsense
    Its O.K. if you don't understand .. it wasn't a big part of the point anyway. I was just saying that the argument would look differently if you were pro-life that's all.
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  10. #130
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    Re: How do you feel about menís versus womanís rights to their babies?

    Quote Originally Posted by naturalrights View Post
    I don't I said anything about forcing a woman to use birth control .. try reading what I said again.
    Using the threat of not paying child support if they don't have an abortion is coercive birth control.

    Its O.K. if you don't understand .. it wasn't a big part of the point anyway. I was just saying that the argument would look differently if you were pro-life that's all.
    I understand the flaws in your argument, but I don't blame you from walk away from your flawed argument.

    And of course I would look at the argument differently if I were ignorant and clueless enough to be a pro-lifer
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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